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1. Embed this notice
   Mac In Philly (mac@jawns.club)'s status on Thursday, 13-Apr-2023 03:40:33 JST Mac In Philly

   The opposite of “return to office” advocates isn’t “work from home” advocates. It’s a rich tapestry of “open offices are distracting” people and “I’ve never gone this long without being sick” people and “commutes are a waste of time I don’t get paid for” people and “I’m an introvert and playing house with coworkers sucks the life out of me” people and “I have a family and appreciate the flexibility” people and “I primarily communicated with coworkers through Slack anyway” people and “no one wa…

   • Embed this notice
     Futurist Jim Carroll (jimcarroll@futurist.info)'s status on Thursday, 13-Apr-2023 07:10:06 JST Futurist Jim Carroll

     in reply to

     @mac Covered that here.

     Most companies are on a path trying to get key employees back to the office. Return to work is the beating drum.

     The problem is that many of those key employees – highly skilled, in huge demand – have tasted freedom, and don’t want to go back. And in the context of trend #8 – Knowledge Velocity – they are in the ‘driver’s seat.’

     https://jimcarroll.com/2022/12/23-trends-for-2023-9-entrenched-workback-pushback/

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     Aleksei � Matiushkin (mudasobwa@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 13-Apr-2023 23:06:26 JST Aleksei � Matiushkin

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T

     @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs that does not work for those who bring some value beyond pure code. Brainstorms, knowledge sharing, pair programming etc does not work well from the remote.

     clacke repeated this.
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     Jonathan T (jonnyt@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Thursday, 13-Apr-2023 23:06:27 JST Jonathan T

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @mac @thomasfuchs And also, the 'I'm significantly more productive now and therefore better for the organisation I work for than I ever was before' people like me.

     If you want to see me being a worse worker, just bloody observe how much less I get done on the days you make me go into the office versus the days I don't.

   • Embed this notice
     Tristan Harward (trisweb@m.trisweb.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Apr-2023 23:14:34 JST Tristan Harward

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @thomasfuchs @mudasobwa @JonnyT @mac I think it's important to recognize that in-person does work as well for many people and situations. That doesn't mean that remote work doesn't, it's just a nuanced decision that should be left in the hands of the people working on the team.

     We shouldn't blanket assume that working from home doesn't work for any given role or team, just like we shouldn't say that working in person doesn't work for any given role or team.

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     Jonathan T (jonnyt@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2023 16:30:08 JST Jonathan T

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @mac @thomasfuchs And if you really want to see my productivity sky rocket, give me a 4 day week, dammit.

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   • Embed this notice
     Jonathan T (jonnyt@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 01:56:45 JST Jonathan T

     in reply to

     • Wim ?
     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @wim_v12e @mudasobwa @mac @thomasfuchs And this is the point - let people and teams who work better and more productively at home, work at home; let people and teams who work better and more productively in the office, work in the office. Don't force one group to do what the other one finds best because it's stupidly counterproductive and actively harmful to your organisation. This is hardly a revolutionary concept.

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   • Embed this notice
     Wim ? (wim_v12e@octodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 01:56:46 JST Wim ?

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @mudasobwa
     OK, that may be so in your case. Me and my team, we do all these things on line with no detriment.
     @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs

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   • Embed this notice
     Aleksei � Matiushkin (mudasobwa@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 01:56:47 JST Aleksei � Matiushkin

     in reply to

     • Wim ?
     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T

     @wim_v12e
     I never said KPI cannot be high though. I said, literally, “brainstorming, knowledge sharing, pair programming etc” would have suffered.

     @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs

   • Embed this notice
     Wim ? (wim_v12e@octodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 01:56:48 JST Wim ?

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @mudasobwa
     That may be the case for you personally, but it can't be generalised. I have been working remote for the past three years. I don't write code for work, most of my time is spent in meetings, including highly technical ones. By any indicator used by my employer, I have been very productive. My not being physically present has not had any negative effect on my organisation.

     @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs

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   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:02 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • bob.php :veritrek_gold:
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @bobmagicii @wyri @mac Sunk cost of long contracts for office space combined with managers needing to prove to their bosses that their work is necessary, along with en unhealthy dose of distrust, believing employees will slack off/go to the gym if not watched (a behavior mostly seen in the managerial class).

   • Embed this notice
     Blaireau des Mauges (schmorgluck@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:02 JST Blaireau des Mauges

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • bob.php :veritrek_gold:
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @Mabande @bobmagicii @wyri @mac I think that might be why the adoption of remote work is so spotty in France: it's been pointed out time and time again by economists and sociologists that distrust is a plague of French economy on several levels and in all directions.

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   • Embed this notice
     bob.php :veritrek_gold: (bobmagicii@phpc.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:07 JST bob.php :veritrek_gold:

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @Mabande @wyri @mac its mostly about the board being able to witness their slave labour. its a fetish.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:08 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @wyri @mac Honestly, the employees demanding that everyone else come in so they can hang should get a hobby, a hubby, or a social life.
     I don't mind anyone (nor myself) going back into the office if it serves a purpose, what I detest is being required to because someone else has a need to see me be there while they not interact with me.

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   • Embed this notice
     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:16 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     @mac Exactly! In the same way that "return to office" isn't just control freak bosses/managers. It's also people "that need it for structure", people "that need people around them", people "that need a clear separation between home and work life".

     clacke likes this.
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     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:35 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @wyri @walruslifestyle @mac Both siding might have been the wrong critique, it's more like the "not all men" thing: we _know_ not all WFO appreciators demand everyone WFO all the time whether it's the best option or not, but the ones we're discussing are.
     So jumping in with nuancing is more of a nuisance even though it's in good faith.

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   • Embed this notice
     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:39 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @walruslifestyle @mac My job is pretty much remote/hydbrid/office pick one and be happy, with loads of people in remote. So in that sense, I'm sad to hear about hybrid less being an option. My main goal with that initial post was to give a different point of view while complementing the core message that enforcing where to work on people is bad. If you think I could have used different wording without making it sound as both siding I would love to know.

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   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:40 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @wyri @walruslifestyle @mac This is exactly the thing tho': the push for WFO isn't a "do what's best for you" thing, but "WFO is mandatory" and increasingly "no hybrid" and that's why your first post is taken as both siding a very clear issue.
     I do understand that mandatory WFH was hard for a lot of people and I'm sorry it caused you harm.

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     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:41 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @walruslifestyle @Mabande @mac Further more, tons of articles, social media post, etc etc claiming that you work better from home feels very demeaning when WFH fucked up your life for 2 -3 years just because some people work better from home. Great, then work from home. I'm not going to tell you shouldn't, I rather have a coworker that is happy then one that is depressed because they have to come to the office.

   • Embed this notice
     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:42 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @walruslifestyle @Mabande @mac Mandatory WFH fucked me over badly and was literally destroying my life. Trying to make this about anything else then making sure people work where they work best is destructive on the same level and empoyees/employers demanding you are coming to the office/WFH.

     There is no "both sides" there is people, and everything trying to make this about "office side vs WFH side" is part problematic at the very least.

   • Embed this notice
     shrimp eating mammal 🦐 (walruslifestyle@octodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:43 JST shrimp eating mammal 🦐

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @wyri @Mabande @mac already did. I don't usually dive in and make a smartass comment without context. What I see is that you're attempting to "both sides" an issues that is absolutely not a "both sides" issue. Besides the fact that this behavior is annoying as hell, it's a bizarre position to take.

   • Embed this notice
     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:44 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     • shrimp eating mammal 🦐
     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @walruslifestyle @Mabande @mac Go back and read the rest

   • Embed this notice
     shrimp eating mammal 🦐 (walruslifestyle@octodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:45 JST shrimp eating mammal 🦐

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     @wyri @Mabande @mac people who don't want to return to office: working in an office is destroying my life!

     you: Zoom makes me tired

   • Embed this notice
     Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm: (wyri@toot-toot.wyrihaxim.us)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:19:46 JST Cees-Jan Kiewiet :rp: :wm:

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @mac they need a job where that is the situation. While I would love to have more people in the office. My believe that you should work where you work best, office, WFH, train, beach, park bench, is a lot stronger. Zoom and such tire me out a lot more than in person pairings. But when that isn't possible we'll figure something out and I block my calendar to decompress afterwards. Not that it matters as my current team is NA east coast while I'm in Amsterdam

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     Mishell Baker (mishellbaker@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:20:36 JST Mishell Baker

     in reply to

     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @mudasobwa My husband is a manager who has produced great value from home, gives brilliant interviews and meetings from home, and has been vastly more productive since he only has to waste time on a commute once every 1-2 weeks.

     He also hasn't been sick in over a year and is able to make meals for for his wife who is on chemo, and even spend quality time with her at lunch during her last days, all with zero productivity loss.

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   • Embed this notice
     Josephine Robertson (revjorobertson@writing.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 07:21:33 JST Josephine Robertson

     in reply to

     • Wim ?
     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @mudasobwa @wim_v12e @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs Those things are literally my job and I've done BETTER remote. Maybe you would have suffered at those things, that doesn't make it true for all.

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     Suzanne she/her (drsuzanne@ohai.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-May-2023 08:09:48 JST Suzanne she/her

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Jonathan T
     • Aleksei � Matiushkin

     @JonnyT @mac @thomasfuchs @mudasobwa It can if it’s designed well. Most people don’t know how to make these things work online. Online collaboration needs to be constructed by someone who has expertise in this area. “We’ve never done it before and what we’re doing isn’t working” is not a strong argument.

     clacke likes this.