Notices by Roderick (rvkennedy@mastodon.social)

@shiri @pluralistic @funcrunch @JorgeStolfi @kcoyle @immibis "Taking on more debt" by issuing bonds is *how governments create money*. It's one of only two ways money is created: the other is by banks lending (under licence from governments).

@JorgeStolfi @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle this is the opposite of what happens though. When a US govt shutdown looms due to Congress' refusal to raise the debt ceiling (print money), the dollar typically loses 1-2% of its value. If "printing money" was a concern in the currency markets, it would gain value when this happens.

@pluralistic @theoldbeginner @JorgeStolfi @prestontumber @immibis @funcrunch @kcoyle this. And key to the system working is that there are humans in the loop, checks, balances and accountability. Trying to automate the supply of a currency, as most crypto coins at least claim to do, is a guarantee of failure.

@JorgeStolfi @zockel @ikaikahussey @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle you're actually making a closer argument to what the crypto people do say. They argue that there's no essential difference between a cryptocurrency and fiat - that it's all about community acceptance. And they also promote the value of limiting the money supply to ensure that the value increases.

@JorgeStolfi You keep saying you're against crypto, but you keep insisting on the libertarian framing of money that crypto is based on.
It was not trade, then money, then debt, according the the best info we have (I'm not the expert but believe the experts like Graeber).
It was trade first. That created debt, "You gave me an apple, so I owe you a favour." - an apple again, a share of meat, some work, whatever. That's debt. Much, much later, came money, as a formalization of debt.

@immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle no. Real currencies have value because they are enforced by governments that have judicial systems, police forces and armies. You need US dollars for example in the USA because they're the only way to pay US taxes, and you can be at the last resort, physically arrested for refusing to pay.

@JorgeStolfi @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle Sorry, but no. Worldwide trust of the USD is a second-order effect. At the bottom of it is the stability of the US government, and its ability to enforce the use of its currency in its borders. Your saying "people trust the USD because they trust the Fed" leads to the question, "why do people trust the Fed can do what it intends?" Which leads to "because the US govt and all its apparatus of state backs it up." Which leads to my point above.

@JorgeStolfi @apolaine @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle maybe read a bit deeper , unless you have some other sources that promote the contrary view. Graeber is not a crypto bro or libertarian but a serious academic. Or try Steve Keen's Debunking Economics.