Notices by Janneke (janneke@todon.nl), page 3

@aziz @fsf @fsfe @reproducible_builds
Thank you! We (well, mostly @ekaitz_zarraga and @stikonas) are getting very close to bootstrapping tinycc on riscv64. Exciting times ahead!

@mahryekuh
Can we please get rid of the ridiculous browser dependence with its childish GUI and mouse shoving and get back to open protocols and sensible text based (user-empowering, programmable/extensible) client softwares?

@mahryekuh
I don't mind other people using browsers or other GUIs that they cannot extend or programmatically interact with, it just makes me wonder.

What I hate is when using a browser is the only way for me to get something done. Shoving and aiming a mouse, visually scanning the screen for something that you could in a text interface just declaratively search for,/"go to", repetitively, and without sensible undo, is something I don't have the time or patience for.

@mahryekuh
Yes, I get that. Programming is not for everyone. But I believe it's not up to the developer to decide for the user what she won't be capable of. Quite the contrary.

I believe that many could learn where it now feels they're being kept dumb/down.

What happened to the vision of GNU (Emacs) to enable and encourage non-programming persons such as secretaries to learn and start writing small programs?

@lanodan @ashwin Well, if you're a school and you're too stupid to see this, your students are f*cked anyway.

What could you possibly hope to teach them?

At the #Guix Days I checked with fellow #Hurd enthousiast Ricardo if he'd join if I would run an informal session on the status and development of the Hurd in Guix, so that we'd al least have two people for the session.

We've had nice sessions in the past with a handful of people and imagine my surprise that out of the 40+ attendants @ Guix Days, 16 show up to make it an amazing and informative session.

#GNU Mes 0.26 released: With greatly enhanced #Guile compatibility, Guile-style modules, and supporting Gash and Gash-Utils.

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2023-12/msg00000.html

Thanks to the amazing work of Timothy Sample (and myself :)

#GnuMes
#bootstrappable
#BootstrappableBuilds
#ReproducibleBuilds
@fsf
@fsfe

#GNU Mes 0.25 released: Supporting the bootstrap for riscv64-linux.

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2023-11/msg00001.html

Thanks to the amazing work of @ekaitz_zarraga and
@stikonas!

#GnuMes
#bootstrappable
#BootstrappableBuilds
#ReproducibleBuilds
@fsf
@fsfe

@lxo thanks for.sharing.
The "racist on Sundays" was not meant to put down or belittle the efforts it may take on ones path to become vegan.

It was inspired by a comment that I got on birdsite; someone claimed they were vegan six days a week and go out hunting the seventh day.

The road to veganism can take a fraction of a moment, just one decision, or it can take decades, but to me, veganism amongst other things, equals the realization and rejection of speciesism. That aspect is not only pretty binary but also irriversible. Either you've had the realization that we are all individuals and equals and all animals have the same.rights, or you didn't.

@lxo
Of course you're right and I sure hope you (or anyone else) didn't get the impression that I might expect anything from them.

My path to veganism took me over two decades and I can feel both pretty bad and pretty good about that. Thinking about that I mostly feed bad and puzzled for denying for so long what seems so obvious now.

Also, I said that eating only some more plant-based is great! And there's much to say for not going #vegan overnight as well.

I just wanted to point out that it doesn't make sense to me for someone to call themselves vegan and still eat meat once a week. You can always say you're transitioning to veganism and try to talk about your weaknesses or difficulties.

@lxo

I'm really starting to like this thread, also because that post really confuses me: What is a "local bootstrap"?

On https://bootstrappable.org we say:

"Do you know how to make yoghurt? The first step is to add yoghurt to milk!"
(and no worries, this also holds for/we're probably talking about soy-based yoghurt")

Either your "local bootstrap" is not a bootstrap at all and you've been injecting binaries downloaded from the interwebs. Even if you ran some parts of its build process actually building some things from source with those binaries, what could be the use of that? After all, the easiest way to not-bootstrap a program is to just download it in binary/runnable form right away.

Or, you have (possibly freshly created) a bootstrap for the program, but haven't shared it yet, and thus the program is (or you just made it) "bootstrappable" and it is truly (eligible to be) free software, and we now may exercise "freedom 0".

So...which is it, or what did I miss?

Eating plant-based, even if you only do it "more often" and advocating to do so is really great, but has little to do with going #vegan and rejecting speciesism.
"I'm only racist on Sundays"?

@lukeshu @amszmidt @lxo @vagrantc
IOW, without bootstrappable builds and reproducible builds, it's impossible to prove the absense of a "incomplete source code bug".

Without bootstrappable builds/reproducible builds, having "some source code" available cannot give any guarantee of software freedom when using this program.

@lxo
Right; if the program cannot be (easily) built, script or build-system-wise, it cannot be copylefted.

Without a new "freedom 4" (the freedom to build/bootstrap a program and re-create it bit-for-bit using free software) it would still be OK to require build dependencies that themselves cannot be built (or only by injecting pre-built binaries that cannot be verified to have been built exclusively with free software) and copyleft the program.

I think this is very bad and is already undermining software freedom today.
@reproducible_builds
#Bootstrappable

@amszmidt @ekaitz_zarraga @loke @vagrantc
Although I'm not quite ready yet to suggest we need a fifth freedom, "freedom 4": the freedom to bootstrap the program (and re-create it bit-for-bit?)...

...if I don't distribute a binary---that otherwise may or may not not fully or partly match the sources---together with my software, how would you ever exercise your "freedom 0" to "run it as you wish"?

How does un-runnable software (or a binary that you could run if you're feeling brave but cannot not re-create) ever give you software freedom?

@amszmidt
That's right, they do not help: they're essential!

Without Reproducible builds and Bootstrappable builds, free software, and certainly software freedom, is an illusion at best.

Re: Trusting Trust, see for example the excellent talk by @vagrantc

https://archive.org/details/fossy2023_Breaking_the_Chains_of_Trustin

#RebproducibleBuilds
#Bootstrappable
#BootstrappableBuilds

@amszmidt @vagrantc
Humans have survived perfectly well for longer periods than 40y without software freedom.

Ignorance is a very powerful mechanism that can hardly be underestimated.

Unless you are running GNU Guix, you are most likely running pretty large pre-built binaries that you have downloaded.

If you cannot reproduce the same binary from the source code, how can you be sure you are running the source code you inspected? You can't, without Reprocuducible builds, software freedom is just another nice and cozy fairy tale.

@amszmidt @vagrantc
Why does the GNU GPL require build scripts to be made available?

You can "look at" the source files without these scrpts too?

@fsf @civodul Also, don't miss the follow-up post

https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2020/childhurds-and-substitutes/

(and we're hoping to have some more news real soon now).
#GNU #Guix #Hurd

Talk at IEEE S&P 2023 "Oakland" by Marcel Fourné "It’s like flossing your teeth: On the Importance and Challenges of Reproducible Builds for Software Supply Chain Security"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0A2cSejlZ4

#bootstrappable
#BootstrappableBuilds
#ReproducibleBuilds
@reproducible_builds