@p @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff @scathach @lispi314
In a perfect world, we'd have a choice between Plan 9 and Lisp machines, and they'd probably be used to talking to each other. They were both designed for individual hackers working together in a lab over a local network.

> Lisp people think Unix is ugly, GNU people seem to hate Unix and want to turn it into god-knows-what. So they assume because the lower level of the system is ugly (in their estimation) that everything from outside the tower is bad and lowbrow.

People forget that GNU was a compromise. :ignutius: was a Lisp hacker through and through, he lived and breathed that shit for years. He didn't think Unix was particularly good, but it was important enough at the time to replicate for his system. His attempt at bringing a bit of the Lisp machine workflow to Unixen was Emacs. His initial plans for morphing the Unix design into something else were much broader, but by the time Linux won out that plan kind of went astray. The Hurd actually had some neat ideas.

> I really like Lisp but the thing that keeps me from reaching for it is that the designers hate Unix (because "you're supposed to" and "there's no excuse for not having a" and all of that)

Sometimes I feel like a bit of an outsider among other Lisp hackers because I don't completely pull the wool over my own eyes. I like Common Lisp and Emacs 'cause they're the right tools for me, but preaching evangelism is a waste of time that just makes people hate you. It's like those old memes about SICP where the reverence for the book is stretched to its absurd extreme by making claims about "achieving satori" by the mere act of reading it. But this is apparently an actual part of Lisp culture, and they take it seriously. We can still learn stuff from our contemporaries; let's not get caught up in decades long culture war bullshit. I like Plan 9. It's a good design. When are we getting 9P over Chaosnet?