@smlx4 @djsumdog @sun What of the women living in countries where this is mandatory? Do we just ignore them, given that many of them are not even permitted to be outside and when they are, it has to be with a chaperone and wearing garments that actually rob them of their humanity so that the men around them don't catch lustful thoughts? That is the reasoning behind garments that cover everything. It's always a control thing. How do we stop thoughts of lust? Blame women, make them cover up, showing their skin is shameful. That is what this garment actually represents and we shouldn't forget it.

I think safety concerns are acceptable to say that someone should be uncovered in certain areas so that we can see their faces and read their intentions. It's an important part of human socialisation. Cutting them off from this socialisation dehumanises the women wearing these garments and denies their inclusion in social society. It makes it harder to interact with them. Some people need to be able to read faces too so covering the face up as some of these garments do will isolate those people. There is so much wrong with it. I could maybe see why some women might choose to cover their hair, but not to cover their whole face. To dehumanise and shame themselves like this.

It is about preventing lust. And I understood this clearly from a conversation someone had with a muslim man. That is where his thoughts went. Although he seemed horrified at the thought that he should cover himself up because some men will have lustful thoughts about his beard. Like he hasn't heard of gay men before. I have not forgotten how gay men are treated in muslim societies. I heard a gay man who escaped one tell his story of constantly being beaten up whenever he went in public. He feared for his life. That being gay is shameful. Gay conversion therapy, where he was even forced to jerk off to magazines of naked women while his mother watched. These are the stories we should remember. Because this is actually bigger than western countries and even those countries now have these problems in these communities which few are willing to properly discuss.