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   ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:33:26 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

   now that it's almost 2026, let's rename "lead-free solder" to "normal solder" because cmon it handles just fine and we should really try to put lead in fewer things

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:35:19 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     "lead-free solder" is the "horseless carriage" of our time

     let's make it so that in 2050, kids are like "you put WHAT in your solder??"

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:36:40 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     @TimWardCam i have a few tips that have lead on them and a spool of leaded solder somewhere but i haven't touched either in years because i just didn't need to

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     Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE (timwardcam@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:36:41 JST Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

     in reply to

     @whitequark I've still got a tiny amount of 1970s real solder left - lead and nasty poisonous flux.

     But I don't use solder very often, so this is probably enough to see me out.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:37:03 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • slaeshjag

     @slaeshjag it used to be significantly worse 5-10 years ago

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     slaeshjag (slaeshjag@bitbang.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:37:04 JST slaeshjag

     in reply to

     @whitequark honestly, I don't know why lead-free solder has such a bad reputation to this day. I avoided it for the longest time, then I had to use it once about a year ago and... It was fine. A slightly warmer tip and a good alloy and I barely notice a difference

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:48:32 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Nix :blobcatpeekaboo:

     @Lynx Yeah that is honestly weird. i guess it's very cheap

   • Embed this notice
     Nix :blobcatpeekaboo: (lynx@akko.wtf)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:48:33 JST Nix :blobcatpeekaboo:

     in reply to
     @whitequark the default surface finish is still leaded hasl for both jlc and pcbway :haggard:
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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:51:55 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Peter Brett
     • slaeshjag

     @krans @slaeshjag I don't have an exact date for you, and it's regional as it's kind of dependent on what solders are available locally

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     Peter Brett (krans@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:51:57 JST Peter Brett

     in reply to

     • slaeshjag

     @whitequark I was hand-soldering 0.5 mm pitch connectors with lead-free solder in 2013 with _very_ little skill or talent, so I feel like it must have been perfectly usable even then. @slaeshjag

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:52:26 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • none gender with left politics

     @vikxin I think it's regional

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     none gender with left politics (vikxin@beach.city)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:52:28 JST none gender with left politics

     in reply to

     @whitequark I have never had problems with lead-free solder and I'm still using the same spool of rosin-core solder I got at a RadioShack like 15 years ago lmao

     (I don't solder very often)

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:53:57 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • doskel (after supper account)

     @doskel it's possible but i would consider it fairly unlikely; unless you were soldering like you're on a production line the actual amounts of Pb you'd end up ingesting are quite small

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     doskel (after supper account) (doskel@masto.doskel.net)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:53:58 JST doskel (after supper account)

     in reply to

     @whitequark 90% sure i have not-insignificant brain damage from using so much of that shit without realizing
     i was 8 and my dad just gave me the soldering iron neither of us knew what "60/40" meant

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 07:56:06 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • doskel (after supper account)

     @doskel or to put it in a different way: no conclusive evidence of harm from Pb in solder has ever been produced by anyone, we are phasing out Pb on the basis of it not having a safe exposure level rather than specific evidence of harm for its use in electronics

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:05:16 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     if lead-free solder is good for the nuclear stockpile it's probably good for your application too. yknow. just guessing here

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     Michael Kohne (mhkohne@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:05:16 JST Michael Kohne

     in reply to

     @whitequark At this point I use leaded solder because I've still got half of a spool and don't go through it that fast. I won't buy more of course, but...I use it slow enough I might run out before it does.

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     Mike P (fentiger@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:05:31 JST Mike P

     in reply to

     @whitequark So there's no need to switch to plutonium-free solder?

     I don't know what I'd do if I had to try and use that stuff. ;)

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:07:00 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     and yes, i think phasing out lead from solder is good even though no specific evidence of leaded solder being harmful to health has ever been produced. this is because nobody's ever found how much lead is a "safe" amount of lead; even though the harms of a small amount of lead are small, they are never zero, and so there is a good reason to not use it at all.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:07:15 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Michael Kohne

     @mhkohne that's fine, although i would not use leaded solder for rework of lead-free assemblies if you are serious about it

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:14:54 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     the reason lead, and other similar metals (like mercury) are harmful to your health is because they cross-link proteins in your brain (and elsewhere)

     proteins have thiol, -SH, groups in many places. they rely on these groups forming hydrogen bonds to stay flexible. a Pb/Hg/etc atom will come and bond to two -SH groups, making the protein unable to change its shape and fulfill its function. when this happens in the brain, your brain stops working properly

     a single atom of Pb is still harmful.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:15:50 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     despite the above, the actual amounts of lead that you would have ingested from using leaded solder as a hobby are very small and comparable to e.g. the amount of mercury you would get from seafood. the ideal amount is zero, but as long as you weren't an assembly line worker doing it 8 hours a day, the damage you would have from working with leaded solder would likely be barely, if at all, quantifiable

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:16:47 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     i am explaining this to underscore a seeming contradiction in asserting both the following two statements:
     - it is good to phase out leaded solder
     - it is probably OK that you used leaded solder for a hobby

   • Embed this notice
     Ratsnake Games 🔞 (ratsnakegames@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:25:48 JST Ratsnake Games 🔞

     in reply to

     @whitequark less of a technicality and more of "putting plutonium in consumer electronics is illegal anyway so it's out of scope for RoHS"

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:28:21 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Ratsnake Games 🔞

     @ratsnakegames i think there's no rule that you can't put depleted uranium into consumer electronics And Yet

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:28:37 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Lexy of the Day 🏳‍⚧
     • slaeshjag

     @qlexy @slaeshjag this is actually a good question!

   • Embed this notice
     Lexy of the Day 🏳‍⚧ (qlexy@chaos.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:28:38 JST Lexy of the Day 🏳‍⚧

     in reply to

     • slaeshjag

     @slaeshjag @whitequark i also think it's fine, but i am wondering how tin pest plays into this. is it something people actually encounter when using solder that's close to 100% tin? because i have never, so i'd be curious to read examples.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:44:45 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐

     @gcvsa i'm impatient

   • Embed this notice
     Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐 (gcvsa@mstdn.plus)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:44:46 JST Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐

     in reply to

     @whitequark We started phasing out lead in gasoline in 1972. We still call it unleaded gasoline.

   • Embed this notice
     Timon 🛠 (timonsku@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 08:50:42 JST Timon 🛠

     in reply to

     @whitequark it became refreshingly common at least with consumer electronics clients that they refer to "leaded solder" in context of fixing prototypes

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:03:13 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @mmu_man except unlike IPv6, the industry is >90% lead-free by this point, it's just enthusiasts and really cheap vendors who do leaded stuff

   • Embed this notice
     mmu_man (mmu_man@m.g3l.org)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:03:15 JST mmu_man

     in reply to

     @whitequark haven't tried lead-free in years. It's like IPv6: everyone knows we should switch, but nobody cares enough nor has the time to do it properly.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:14:56 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @mmu_man try Sn99Cu0.7Ag0.3. it has completely replaced leaded solder in my workflow. my ex was a die-hard leaded solder fan and even she decided to switch after that

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     mmu_man (mmu_man@m.g3l.org)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:14:58 JST mmu_man

     in reply to

     @whitequark and repair.

     Still, last time I tried RoHS it was just unusable to solder wires because the plastic insulation melted before the wire got soldered.

     We need simple and reproducible procedures to switch, or it will never take off.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:16:06 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • slaeshjag
     • Garrett Mace

     @macegr @slaeshjag there's at least a little bit of that, yeah

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     Garrett Mace (macegr@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:16:08 JST Garrett Mace

     in reply to

     • slaeshjag

     @slaeshjag @whitequark Having lived through the cycle I am pretty sure why. It's a similar recalcitrance (and demographic) to people rejecting EVs so much they actively roll coal. In other words: men who think that rejecting change is power instead of fear.

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     Michael Kohne (mhkohne@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:29:33 JST Michael Kohne

     in reply to

     @whitequark 100% - but most of what Indo is either old arcade gear (as in 198x and 199x) or throw away prototypes. So I can still get away with it for now.

   • Embed this notice
     chrisgj198 (chrisgj198@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:46:15 JST chrisgj198

     in reply to

     @whitequark I think BeO is RoHS compliant too, even though the industry is pretty reluctant to use it themselves due to toxic dust. My RF signal generator has BeO insulator in its output transistor. Lots of warning labels on the box.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:49:58 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man
     • F4GRX Sébastien

     @f4grx @mmu_man I am not an expert on differences between different Pb-free solders, I just have this one which works very well and I can recommend it

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     F4GRX Sébastien (f4grx@chaos.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:50:00 JST F4GRX Sébastien

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @mmu_man @whitequark most of the ones I see at farnell is Sn96 with a melting pt of 217. Few are Sn99. Is that the significant difference?

     In my previous attempts I hated that the unleaded solder becomes white-ish when it cools.

   • Embed this notice
     mmu_man (mmu_man@m.g3l.org)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:50:01 JST mmu_man

     in reply to

     @whitequark I'll add that to my shopping list.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:50:38 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Michael Kohne

     @mhkohne yeah that is a good reason to stay with Pb

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:51:34 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • groff 🇺🇦

     @geoffl I'm sorry to hear that

   • Embed this notice
     groff 🇺🇦 (geoffl@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:51:35 JST groff 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @whitequark The water pipes in my house are lead.

   • Embed this notice
     chrisgj198 (chrisgj198@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:54:29 JST chrisgj198

     in reply to

     @whitequark Other industries like brass and aluminium machining must have better lobbyists - the level of lead in brass plumbing here has only very recently been reduced (from 2.5% iirc) perhaps prompted because a brand new childrens' hospital was unable to meet the drinking water standard for lead, even after flushing with everything they could think of.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:55:44 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • groff 🇺🇦

     @geoffl it's probably fine. Unless the composition and pH of your potable water changes and suddenly it's not fine, like it happened in Flint, Michigan...

   • Embed this notice
     groff 🇺🇦 (geoffl@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 09:55:45 JST groff 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @whitequark If it's made me dumber then I'm thankful.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:07:59 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man
     • Andrew Zonenberg

     @azonenberg @mmu_man yeah

   • Embed this notice
     Andrew Zonenberg (azonenberg@ioc.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:08:00 JST Andrew Zonenberg

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @whitequark @mmu_man and a very small handful of aerospace etc applications where the environmental and financial impacts of putting up a new satellite or crashing a plane due to a fraction of a percent change of tin whiskers outweigh those of the few grams of lead used in the solder

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     Furbland's Very Cool Account™ (groupnebula563@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:10:34 JST Furbland's Very Cool Account™

     in reply to

     @whitequark leaded, unleaded, and diesel solder

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:34:29 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • groff 🇺🇦

     @geoffl yeah all right, can't argue with that :D

   • Embed this notice
     groff 🇺🇦 (geoffl@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:34:30 JST groff 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @whitequark I also went to school downwind from an asbestos factory, so I should make the best of the time that's left.

   • Embed this notice
     groff 🇺🇦 (geoffl@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:34:31 JST groff 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @whitequark But yes, a sudden drop in pH would be bad for me. Hard water here, not like the soft water in Cornwall (if the lead don't get you the Radon will).

   • Embed this notice
     groff 🇺🇦 (geoffl@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:34:33 JST groff 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @whitequark I've already survived long enough to know it's fine for me. My family has stupidly resilient DNA. Probably because my ancestors survived mining toxic minerals in Cornwall for several hundred years so the selective pressure was great. Only one of my father's 5 siblings didn't make it to their 90s. The others can still drink me under the table from pewter goblets.

   • Embed this notice
     chrisgj198 (chrisgj198@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 10:58:32 JST chrisgj198

     in reply to

     @whitequark A few years ago I tested all of my crockery with 3M leadcheck sticks. Quite a few inherited/ old items had detectable lead so I stopped using them with food.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:02:30 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • chrisgj198

     @chrisgj198 love the whiplash of you + the other person talking about how if asbestos didn't kill him, pewter sure isn't going to

   • Embed this notice
     chrisgj198 (chrisgj198@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:16:57 JST chrisgj198

     in reply to

     @whitequark tbf it was mostly for a young child in the house - I used to hold the lead solder in my mouth when I ran out of hands, so I'm a lost cause.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:21:07 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • chrisgj198

     @chrisgj198 done that tbh

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     poleguy looking for lost tools (poleguy@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:26:06 JST poleguy looking for lost tools

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @whitequark @mmu_man If we are going to talk about lead solder we should also talk about flux, fume extraction, health risks and environmental risks. I still use lead solder regularly. I own a high quality fume extractor.

     At my job I see technicians soldering all day without even running a fan. This is in an office environment.

     I was influenced by a colleague who convinced me that the flux you might breath is a mutch bigger health risk than lead. Is lead free solder flux the real toxin?

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:33:22 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man
     • poleguy looking for lost tools

     @poleguy @mmu_man I agree on the necessity of having a fume extractor. I do not know whether anybody has quantified these specific risks for a hobby environment

   • Embed this notice
     poleguy looking for lost tools (poleguy@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:47:18 JST poleguy looking for lost tools

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @whitequark @mmu_man if you are a beginner who will breath the vapors with no ventilation, or maybe just open a window nearby... you are likely much safer breathing in the vapors from lead solder. The temperature is lower, the flux chemicals are less toxic, and the lead is not being vaporized, so it's not an inhalation risk.

     Even as a professional I work this way. On production boards the calculus is different. We use lead free for that. It is legally required too.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 11:47:18 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man
     • poleguy looking for lost tools

     @poleguy @mmu_man I don't think this is right, actually:
     - the flux chemicals are less toxic: what? it's RMA either way
     - the lead is not being vaporized: it does, from experience with vacuum systems Pb and even Ag vapor pressure is noticeable. it's probably on the same order as what's left on your fingers, so not a huge deal, but it's nonzero

     either way I agree ventilation is important. doubly so if you have asthma or other conditions

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     poleguy looking for lost tools (poleguy@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 12:22:51 JST poleguy looking for lost tools

     in reply to

     • mmu_man

     @whitequark @mmu_man I meant, not vaporizing as in... lots of people think the smoke coming from soldering is vaporized lead and that one whiff will turn you into a mad hatter. But that smoke is primarily vaporized flux.

     I heard the fluxes used for lead free solder were more toxic. I'll have to ask my source for clarification.

     But I imagine that even vaporizing them at a higher temperature and longer duration if needed for lead free solder it will likely make more toxic fumes, no?

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 12:31:15 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mmu_man
     • poleguy looking for lost tools

     @poleguy @mmu_man yes, I meant "vaporizing" here as in the scientific meaning, not "aerosolizing" as it would be for the flux fumes

     re higher temperature: yes, that point I agree with. I set up my iron so that the duration is the same but the temperature is, without question, higher, and there will be more breakdown products

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     curtosis (curtosis@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 08-Nov-2025 14:38:09 JST curtosis

     in reply to

     @whitequark It’d be wild if Rome and the US ended up collapsing for the same damned reason, ~2000 years apart. (Lead generally, I mean, not leaded solder specifically.)

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 09-Nov-2025 21:50:24 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Richard Hendricks

     @hendric it might still be a problem in aerospace, that's fine, they can use non-default solder

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     Richard Hendricks (hendric@astronomy.city)'s status on Sunday, 09-Nov-2025 21:50:26 JST Richard Hendricks

     in reply to

     @whitequark Did the tin whisker Apocalypse never end up happening

     https://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/