Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 13:31:07 JST Eugen Rochko

   • かき@GNUsocialJP

   "Sideloading" is the rentseeker word for "being able to run software of your choosing on a computing device you purchased". There is no reasonable case for an operating system developer having a say over what programs you run on your hardware.

   #Android #Google

   • 翠星石, georgia and NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: and 2 others like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Ivan Todorov (ivantodorov@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 14:12:41 JST Ivan Todorov

     in reply to

     @Gargron I think this just became so acceptable and the inertia from the consumers just allowed both Apple and Google to do pretty much what they please..

   • Embed this notice
     TrimTab 🇺🇦 (trimtab@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 14:13:15 JST TrimTab 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     I agree in spirit, but man... Its only 50% rentseeking... My elderly parents and computer illiterate siblings and coworkers would get in trouble fast if they weren't constrained by 3 software platforms: mint software manager, android play, and MS whatchamacallit. I have pounded it into their heads: never download software candy from strangers. (I live in an anti-apple pocket of the world)

     But then, i guess all three of those do let you do your own thing to varying degrees.

   • Embed this notice
     Elric (elricofmelnibone@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 15:52:42 JST Elric

     in reply to

     @Gargron Bold of you to assume that your phone is really "yours". I'm sure that by buying one Google owns your soul and that if your firstborn.

     We need more competition in the Mobile OS market, and Google needs to be hit with a big enough antitrust suit to cripple them for a couple of decades.

   • Embed this notice
     jwz (jwz@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 16:31:17 JST jwz

     in reply to

     @Gargron Hills I will die on!

   • Embed this notice
     Darius Kruythoff (dkruythoff@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 16:42:51 JST Darius Kruythoff

     in reply to

     @Gargron Google is actually brilliant here. Unlike Apple, they don't need to manufacture all the devices. They can just create a software walled garden on anything running their OS.

   • Embed this notice
     RejZoR (rejzor@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 18:22:06 JST RejZoR

     in reply to

     @Gargron I like Samsung's Auto Blocker. It runs my phone in pure mode with everything locked down and secure. But with flip of a switch and fingerprint scan, I can use Dev tools or sideload apps. Then flip it back and all of it still works. I'd be furious if this was the only way.

   • Embed this notice
     jchkoch (jchkoch@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 19:55:48 JST jchkoch

     in reply to

     @Gargron Support free software #fsf and #gnu

   • Embed this notice
     TheGoodWalker (it_sme@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 20:42:13 JST TheGoodWalker

     in reply to

     @Gargron

     Amen! And then there's my cars infotainment center that I can't even sideload!

   • Embed this notice
     Eugen Rochko (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 22:18:05 JST Eugen Rochko

     in reply to

     • かき@GNUsocialJP
     • echt jetz?

     @cpo64 Someone hasn't seen the news...

   • Embed this notice
     echt jetz? (cpo64@nrw.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 22:18:06 JST echt jetz?

     in reply to

     @Gargron … and that’s why you have the choice to buy an Android device instead of an iPhone. I don’t see the problem…

   • Embed this notice
     Gregory (grishka@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2025 23:11:11 JST Gregory

     in reply to

     @Gargron IMO the only long-term solution to this is Android getting completely separated from Google. The "annoy users into submission" approach they take with Play Protect right now is already very much overstepping.

   • Embed this notice
     ElectroFetish (electrofetish@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 01:10:55 JST ElectroFetish

     in reply to

     @Gargron Those who make these decisions have goals to make as much profit as possible. And in fact we get a regression.
     Debian is the friendliest system for civil society.

   • Embed this notice
     tripleman, a 🇨🇦 in 🇩🇪 (tripleman@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 02:14:22 JST tripleman, a 🇨🇦 in 🇩🇪

     in reply to

     @Gargron This list is a hilarious string of people pretending that they’ve never looked at someone’s Windows machine *so completely fucked up with malware and viruses that the owner just blithely clicked on and installed* that the only solution was to nuke it from space and *buy a whole new computer*

     For a good fifteen years the number one reason for tossing perfectly good hardware and buying a newer Win PC was virus/malware infestation.

   • Embed this notice
     Wink and the Broken Robot (winkwinkerson@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 04:34:20 JST Wink and the Broken Robot

     in reply to

     @Gargron True and I’m mad at Apple for making this possible. If they hadn’t set it up this way, no one else would be able to either

   • Embed this notice
     Andreas K (yacc143@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 15:23:37 JST Andreas K

     in reply to

     @Gargron
     Especially as this newest move of Google is redundant: play protect is already built in all Google play services using phones.

     It already flashed and remains suspicious Appa and known malware from all sources.

     So how exactly is locking down the signing keys for apps that are allowed to run at all and connecting them with government ID for developers helping security?

     This purely an anticompetitive measure.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 18:51:53 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @Gargron There is https://replicant.us/ which hopefully won't implement such restrictions (unfortunately it seems to implement he restriction of apks requiring whatever signature to install - which makes some apk edits a pain in the ass).
   • Embed this notice
     Zergling_man (zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2025 18:51:54 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to
     @Gargron android itself is nonfree software, so it's kind of a lost cause anyway
   • Embed this notice
     Jacob (jazaval@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Aug-2025 03:48:37 JST Jacob

     in reply to

     @Gargron counter-point: run your software outside this rentseekers sandbox then. it’s absolutely a bad look for them if something happens to you while in their ecosystem (randsomware, malware, identity theft, etc.)

     just because you own the physical memory registers doesn’t mean you’re ever making use of them without this rentseekers work and IP.

   • Embed this notice
     max oakland (maxoakland@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Sep-2025 06:08:01 JST max oakland

     in reply to

     @Gargron Exactly. And it's also a huge weak link when it comes to protecting people from government censorship

   • Embed this notice
     Ron (ronanon@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 13-Sep-2025 15:42:56 JST Ron

     in reply to

     @Gargron exactement , a croire qu'ils veulent tous faire des systèmes totalement fermé et intrusifs. Je me demande parfois s'il ne cherchent pas a dévelloper le hacking autour de leur Os ..

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:28:39 JST Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧

     in reply to

     • Magnus Ahltorp
     • TrimTab 🇺🇦
     @ahltorp @TrimTab @Gargron
     
     Those "approved" apps are pretty always proprietary / deny users at least one fundamental freedom
     
     They are 100% harmful.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Magnus Ahltorp (ahltorp@mastodon.nu)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:28:40 JST Magnus Ahltorp

     in reply to

     • TrimTab 🇺🇦

     @TrimTab @Gargron Yes, people seem unable to keep in mind two things at once:
     1. Apple and Google are somewhat protecting users by locking them in to “approved” apps.
     2. By financially placing themselves between the users and the apps, their incentives are in the wrong place, which hurts users.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:31:12 JST Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧

     in reply to

     • przemelek
     @przemelek @Gargron
     
     > s a genuine conflict between user rights and the need to protect the average person.
     
     No, there isn't. The average person needs to be protected FROM google.
     
     > Phones hold our banking apps,
     
     The banking apps themselves, which are proprietary to a one ARE what users need to be protected against. Users should be able to access crypto from their phones
     
     > mics, cameras,
     
     Which on modern hardware (such as https://puri.sm/ librem5 ) you can physically turn off
     
     > and countless secrets.
     
     And giving all your countless secrets to some proprietary malware vendor like google /samsung is not the answer.
     
     > 2FA tokens,
     
     there is no 'conflict' here. Keeping 2FA tokens contained enough that the user & only the user has access to them isn't something that sideloading does a damn thing about either way
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     przemelek (przemelek@pol.social)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:31:14 JST przemelek

     in reply to

     @Gargron I'd argue there's a critical reason besides rent-seeking: security.

     It's a genuine conflict between user rights and the need to protect the average person. Phones hold our banking apps, 2FA tokens, mics, cameras, and countless secrets.

     When a sideloaded app steals data, the user doesn't say, "My sideloaded app failed." They say, "My Android/iPhone got hacked." The OS developer takes the blame.

     Android's approach—allowing it, but behind a clear security warning—seems like a decent compromise in this difficult balancing act.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:31:59 JST Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧

     in reply to

     • Francis Augusto 🇳🇴/🇧🇷/:bahia:
     @francis @Gargron Whatever that 'sandbox' is must protect them from actual predators (google, microsoft, apple) or they aren't fit for purpose
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Francis Augusto 🇳🇴/🇧🇷/:bahia: (francis@mastodon.babb.no)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:32:00 JST Francis Augusto 🇳🇴/🇧🇷/:bahia:

     in reply to

     @Gargron yes, but...

     Ma and Pa _need_ some form of sandbox. Sandboxing should be optional. But some form of sandboxing should exist when non-tech people will use computers.

     It's a dangerous world.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:32:22 JST Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧

     in reply to

     • tripleman, a 🇨🇦 in 🇩🇪
     @tripleman @Gargron
     
     > that the only solution was to nuke it from space and *buy a whole new computer*
     
     Installing GNU+Linux was *always* a better solution to that, until very recently (ie until the hidden low-level proprietary software layer / BIOS's made that less effective at removing the malware)
     
     the problem was ALWAYS proprietary software frustrated the user's ability to understand what was going on, provide depth in defence and so on. The 'people installing viruses problem on windows' was ALWAYS about users not actually having control over the computer enough to do what they needed to do / understand programs they were running. "Running all executables" is a form of learned helplessness fomented BY the likes of microsoft because all of *their* executables are malware/black boxes too and so they *couldn't* teach users to not use them
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Nov-2025 23:32:47 JST Jeff "never listens to women" Cliff, B.Sc. 😷 🇮🇷🇱🇧🇨🇦🧯🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🐧

     in reply to

     • Gregory
     @grishka @Gargron It's not just 'annoy users into submission' it's 'keep users from having control over the platform/rebuilding the OS'
     
     this is important to keep in mind, since if it were mere annoying prompts, if users had the ability to change the control flow of app installation (ie if they had the source code and an ability to build/run their modified build -- ie the 4 fundamental freedoms, this would be fixed very quickly given how many are annoyed by this particular antifeature)
     翠星石 likes this.