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1. Embed this notice
   Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:19:25 JST Blurry Moon
   so I mean this guy basically admits that you do have to redesign everything and you can't just flip a switch and that you do have to change the entire industry to accommodate the requirement, then treats it like some kind of epic own instead of realizing he's just a dumbass who admits his version of the proposal is insane
   • djsumdog and Johnny Peligro like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:25:07 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @Noraweed then admit it's a massive change that you're legally forcing instead of lying and saying compliance is trivial
     Johnny Peligro repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Noraweed (noraweed@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:25:08 JST Noraweed

     in reply to
     @sun Yes, the industry should change around this. The current state is not good.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:29:10 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)
     • Noraweed
     @why @Noraweed I support truth in labeling, it should be more clear that you're buying a service
     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?) (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:29:11 JST Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed live service games should be a more expensive risk and not an easy way to fool consumers
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:30:27 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)
     • Noraweed
     @why @Noraweed nah put a big label on it like on cigarettes
   • Embed this notice
     Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?) (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:30:28 JST Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed guys look its the one dude who actually reads the EULA
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:39:31 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @Looming @Noraweed you have to architect your game around preservation which may not match market realities. a lot of games could do this but it's an indirect way of banning entire classes of games currently in development that are insanely popular for the long-term benefit of a very small subset of your customers that care when the game turns off after x years.
   • Embed this notice
     Looming (looming@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:39:33 JST Looming

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed So, local idiot and non-dev here, but is it really that difficult to say at the start of a project "Okay, this needs to have an End Of Life plan at the end" and then keep that in mind during development?
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:45:23 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @Noraweed its easy to point out tons and tons and tons of people that clearly don't know what the initiative promises which is reason enough to not do it and plenty of people have disputed that this is easy to do
   • Embed this notice
     Noraweed (noraweed@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:45:24 JST Noraweed

     in reply to
     @sun
     No, did you read the documentation? Or engage at all with the material of the initiative? If a game is sold specifically, and only as, a service, then it's a service and people know time is only rented on it. If it's sold as a product, it's should be treated as a product.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:45:25 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @Noraweed you're basically saying ban service games, or at least most of them.
   • Embed this notice
     Noraweed (noraweed@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:45:26 JST Noraweed

     in reply to
     @sun Complience would be trivial if you built the game with the knowledge you need an end-of-life plan. It would not be required for existing games under the current petition proposal.
     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Noraweed (noraweed@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:48:38 JST Noraweed

     in reply to
     @sun I'll be back to argue about this later, I have to get back to work
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 04:48:38 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @Noraweed ok, take care
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:01:42 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @Looming @Noraweed service games are built around assumption of the backend always being there so it takes substantial extra effort to make it not assume that. in an ideal world they would do that but it does take substantial effort essentially for no direct financial return
   • Embed this notice
     Looming (looming@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:01:43 JST Looming

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed
     >you have to architect your game around preservation which may not match market realities.
     
     I don't think I get what you mean. What part of putting in the End of Life plan prevents its from being ran exactly the same way as it would have without the End of Life plan?
     
     I also don't think that we are talking about a small subset of customers but I wouldn't know where to pull data from on that lol
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:03:48 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @Looming @Noraweed an open world game might have terabytes of complex map data and content that only is processed on the backend and is never exposed to the client and so there is no natural preservation channel like just making it keep cached downloaded assets or something.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:11:57 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • :blobcatflower:
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @lucy @Looming @Noraweed this is another "it worked in the 1990s when everything fit in one binary and didn't have anti-cheat" arguments
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:11:59 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • :blobcatflower:
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @lucy @Looming @Noraweed content often is also scripted and interpreted so you effectively have to give up trade secrets if you do a content dump to satisfy preservation and re-hosting
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:11:59 JST :blobcatflower:

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @sun @Looming @Noraweed that's how games used to be delivered so clearly it works
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:12:01 JST :blobcatflower:

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @sun @Looming @Noraweed that's a skill issue
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:13:58 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • :blobcatflower:
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @lucy @Looming @Noraweed that is suitable for some games but not others
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:13:59 JST :blobcatflower:

     in reply to

     • :blobcatflower:
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @sun @Looming @Noraweed balatro is written in lua based on love2d the entire code is accessible. it sold 5 million copies.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:14:48 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @sun i don't care about the hoops the devs have to go through, it's doable, do it. A failed gacha is being repurposed as a standalone game so it can be done. I will rape the op
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:15:24 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)
     • Noraweed
     @why @Noraweed the government I guess largely exists because most people can't take care of themself on even really really small and simple tasks like realizing that the thing you bought requires money to keep running so it will turn off someday
     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?) (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:15:25 JST Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed they should do that to offline games and phones and stuff too this shit is a waste of life
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:15:55 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed nah they could be done, they just gotta make sure it can work standalone once shut down
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:16:44 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming

     @sun@shitposter.world @Looming@fsebugoutzone.org @Noraweed@shitposter.world You just release all the fucking code. It's not that big of a deal. Now people can make their own server.

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:17:14 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @Looming @Noraweed it may impose requirements or obligations on the publisher that they find unacceptable but it is always _possible_
   • Embed this notice
     Looming (looming@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:17:15 JST Looming

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed So, then preservation of this type of game is simply not possible without forcing a change and putting the burden to adapt on the publisher?
   • Embed this notice
     Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?) (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:17:24 JST Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed then use a subscription or free to play model instead of tricking consumers with the same pricing model of products that don't have that problem
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:17:24 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Kimochi Whyui (Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?)
     • Noraweed
     @why @Noraweed it's the tricking I have a problem with, you should be able to construct any payment model you want including a one time payment for a service that eventually turns off if you are clear that's what you are paying for
     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:18:19 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @SuperDicq @Looming @Noraweed I love these arguments by the way because they just prove my point that compliance with people's expectations does change everything up to and including the expectation that copyright should be abolished. keep it up.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:18:20 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @SuperDicq @Noraweed @Looming there is not a clear separation between code and content in systems that are online and content-heavy, the only reason it was done before was because it was the only way to distribute content
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:22:51 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming

     @sun@shitposter.world @Noraweed@shitposter.world @Looming@fsebugoutzone.org What is content even? And who cares about that? The game is end of life and no longer making profit anyway.

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:26:03 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @SuperDicq @Noraweed @Looming I was giving you my honest opinion, I am not even totally against really big changes I just don't think the vague and exploitable EU bill that will come out of this initiative is going to be the thing that does it
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:26:04 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming

     @sun@shitposter.world @Noraweed@shitposter.world @Looming@fsebugoutzone.org That's not a bad take. That's still 20 years of proprietary software exploitation but at least we will get free software in the end.

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:26:05 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Noraweed
     • Looming
     @SuperDicq @Noraweed @Looming I mean in an ideal world companies would escrow their game code and assets with like the Library of Congress and in 20 years their copyright would expire and the entire thing would be released
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:26:06 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     • Looming

     @sun@shitposter.world @Looming@fsebugoutzone.org @Noraweed@shitposter.world I don't think copyright should be abolished but it should be heavily reformed to serve the interest of the people instead of the corporations.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 05:42:45 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • :blobcatflower:
     • Noraweed
     • Looming

     @sun@shitposter.world @lucy@netzsphaere.xyz @Looming@fsebugoutzone.org @Noraweed@shitposter.world You're making the awful assumption that companies are supposed to be allowed to have secrets in the first place.

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:23:40 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:
     • Noraweed
     @mangeurdenuage @Noraweed I'm done talking about this, I detailed all my arguments already
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:23:41 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @Noraweed I am saying unless you make an extremely specific and limited proposal I am going to reject it on principle, and even the things it wants to do aren't actually so easy to do, the world has changed since the 1990s and its not as simple as just build a single binary and let people own it forever
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:23:41 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Noraweed
     @sun @Noraweed
     >the world has changed since the 1990s and its not as simple as just build a single binary and let people own it forever
     Can you please elaborate on this as the only major change that is a pain in the ass from my perspective is packet routing, which has become quite frustrating compared to when I began 20 years ago.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:27:50 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @sun i raised the issue that a lot of servers now are just outsourced too. if you built your game around nakama there isn't a server to even give out, it's all locked up in their cloud :comfywoozy:
     
     (nakama does have some crippled self hosting options, but many alternatives which do the same thing doesn't.)
     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:29:23 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn I also know for a fact that there are server software that provide the source to customers for customization, but you cannot distribute those changes
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:31:59 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @sun i guess there is some optimism that politicians will care about signatures and not totally just water it down to meaninglesness exactly as all the right to repair bills had happen :blobcatshrug2:
     
     not really against what they want, though i've read years of devs talk about why this isn't the norm already, and i'd be deeply surprised if this doesn't get immediately swiss cheesed like populist laws all do.
     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:34:34 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • hazlin no plap pirate
     @hazlin @sun considering gamers won't make and hold any kind of stand on anything, its a bit of desperation to try to get the bully in the room to force it yeah.
     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     hazlin no plap pirate (hazlin@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Friday, 04-Jul-2025 08:34:35 JST hazlin no plap pirate

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @sun
     It feels like people are saying "we wish the government was more involved in regulating video games"