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   Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:28:08 JST Crispy Branzino
   To my American comrades,
   
   Things are bad right now, but you can take some comfort in studying good Marxist theory to understand how and why the nation is in this state. Your local library likely has Marxist literature. Reading it is an act of defiance against fascism. Knowledge is power.
   
   Mao and Lenin can also give insight into how late stage capitalism comes to a close.
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     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:32:33 JST Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:

     in reply to
     @Nimbius666 Mao? :blobfoxthinkgoogly:
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:33:12 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @Nimbius666
     
     > Your local library
     
     Or must marxists.org has everything. Basically all of it.
     
     > studying good Marxist theory to understand how and why the nation is in this state.
     
     > Reading it is an act of defiance against fascism.
     
     I don't think that anything I read stopped fascism. It's essentially a manual of failure written by the people that either lost to fascists or, once they got power, were indistinguishable from fascists.
     
     The Federalist papers are a better read.
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:53:29 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p it's not an end to fascism, but defiance. These are different things.
     
     >It's essentially a manual of failure written by the people that either lost to fascists or, once they got power, were indistinguishable from fascists.
     
     This is common and remedial. Revisit English comprehension as its possible the literature is too academic. As a point of reference, the soviets were clear victors in world war II.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:07:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @Nimbius666
     
     > it's not an end to fascism, but defiance. These are different things.
     
     Seems like it would be better to get rid of the thing than to run around defying it.
     
     > This is common and remedial. Revisit English comprehension as its possible the literature is too academic.
     
     Unfortunately, "If you don't agree with it, you must not understand it, probably because you're not smart enough." is the common retort and people fall for it when they are young. I fell for it when I was young.
     
     It's arrogant, it's a symptom of exactly the sort of person that buys this philosophy: these people are too stupid to act in their own interests, but you'll guide them, right? Trotsky says that the peasants are just too stupid to agree with him, so they have to be subject to the proletariat, the proletariat is too stupid so they need guidance from the vanguard of the proletariat, and the vanguard of the proletariat has to listen to the Fourth International, which had Trotsky as a leader (purely by coincidence, I'm certain).
     
     > As a point of reference, the soviets were clear victors in world war II.
     
     Do you intend to convey that Stalin is representative of your philosophy?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:22:14 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • イリエ
     @irie @Nimbius666 Hungry Santa was actually not a very big fan of the Jewish people: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/ . In modern parlance, he was "problematic" (in this case the word means "racist as hell").
     marx-vs-lassalle.jpg
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     イリエ (irie@merovingian.club)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:22:18 JST イリエ

     in reply to

     • pistolero

     @p @Nimbius666 I like the theory that defines Communism as the failed attempt to establish Judaism for all (and its rule by the Jewish priest class) via secular means.

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:00:33 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @Nimbius666
     
     > but its the last resort when youre faced with someone who hasn't progressed with the material.
     
     Well, it was pretty quick. I have in fact progressed with the material, and eventually past it.
     
     > I'm just intent on ensuring everyone can learn.
     
     Everyone can learn. In fact, if one cares to read, we're at an unprecedented time.
     
     > Trotsky stated peasants lack class conscience and can seek emancipation through alliance with the proletariat in revolution.
     
     Yes, so I read. He was of the opinion that they inevitably fall in with the bourgeois interests. That is, they come to the wrong conclusion and thus cannot be allowed to make decisions. This is arrogant enough to be called foolish: Trotsky was an idiot.
     
     > The role of the vanguard, the party, is to align the proletariat with goals and objectives to achieve Marxist communism.
     
     A set of elites to make the decisions to achieve the objective, without regard for whether the idea is even good.
     
     > The proletariat sees their class role and understand the need to make revolution.
     
     Per Trotsky, "This program is a scientific program. It is based on an objective analysis of the objective situation. It cannot be understood by the workers as a whole." This is to say that he has decided for them what is in their interest and that whether or not they agree with it--which, in his view, is impossible, because they cannot understand it--it has to be done.
     
     > These are levels of leadership, not crutches upon which failure rests.
     
     It was a strictly ideologically regimented structure; his criteria were whether people were aligned with his philosophy and whether they achieved his own objectives rather than whether they were free to make their own decisions.
     
     > I'm not certain what this is relevant to?
     
     That was the hierarchy: Trotsky over the party, the party over the vanguard, and the vanguard over the worker/peasant alliance. ( https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/tpr/pr10.htm )
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:00:34 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p
     
     >It's arrogant
     Agreed, ajd i apologise, but its the last resort when youre faced with someone who hasn't progressed with the material.
     
     >you'll guide them, right?  
     Marxist Leninist theory exists for this. I'm no Mao; im not qualified to lead anyone, I'm just intent on ensuring everyone can learn.
     
     >Trotsky says that the peasants are just too stupid to agree with him
     
     Trotsky stated peasants lack class conscience and can seek emancipation through alliance with the proletariat in revolution. Peasants absolutely have the intelligence to understand their circumstance, their life and their oppression.
     
     > the proletariat is too stupid so they need guidance from the vanguard of the proletariat
     
     The role of the vanguard, the party, is to align the proletariat with goals and objectives to achieve Marxist communism. The proletariat sees their class role and understand the need to make revolution. These are levels of leadership, not crutches upon which failure rests.
     
     >and the vanguard of the proletariat has to listen to the Fourth International
     
     The Fourth International (FI) was a political international established in France in 1938 by Leon Trotsky and his supporters, having been expelled from the Soviet Union and the Communist International. I'm not certain what this is relevant to?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:05:21 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Vinnewed Goblin
     @warmbeverageenjoyer @Nimbius666
     
     > Are you saying mao was qualified to lead?
     
     My previous ex (the one before the recent ex) had to live with Mao's decisions. (She was born due to China's purity spiral, in fact. No one wanted to stick out if they also wanted to survive, so her parents did what everyone else was doing and had her.)
     
     > is not worth responding to, though I'm sure p will end up doing so anyway
     
     ...*cough* OKAY YEAH BUT
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     Vinnewed Goblin (warmbeverageenjoyer@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:05:23 JST Vinnewed Goblin

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @Nimbius666 @p
     >I'm no Mao; im not qualified to lead anyone
     Are you saying mao was qualified to lead?
     
     The rest of your post reads in exactly the same slimy, duplicitous way authoritarian commies always speak in and is not worth responding to, though I'm sure p will end up doing so anyway
     
     Just, gross. I'm with you against fascism, and I think infighting when we have the same shared enemy is stupid, but I encourage you to look within and realize your slimy self hurts the cause more than anything
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:06:42 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie True.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:08:58 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • イリエ
     @dcc @Nimbius666 @irie Hungry Santa suffered from the same affliction as many other Germans: he couldn't just leave people alone.
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:25:48 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie I think the true issuse today is question of what do you do to people who won't leave you alone? (you kill then obviously)
     DEAD_NOW_alex.mp4
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:32:09 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @dcc @p @irie
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:32:18 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @Nimbius666 @p @irie No not really, you believe there is a moral high ground. Its not, it just has to happen.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:32:45 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • イリエ
     @Nimbius666 @dcc @irie No:
     maokiss.jpg
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:36:36 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @dcc @irie
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:37:10 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @Nimbius666 @p @irie
     subversive.jpg
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:40:32 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • イリエ
     @Nimbius666 @dcc @irie "It could be if it weren't Western bourgeois decadence, comrade."
     
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_China
     
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_China
     
     > Under the Xi Jinping administration, LGBTQ venues and events have been forced to shut and LGBTQ rights activists have become subject to greater scrutiny by the country's system of mass surveillance.
     
     :xi2:
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     Vinnewed Goblin (warmbeverageenjoyer@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:46:41 JST Vinnewed Goblin

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 :02lul:
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     Thomas Magnum (leyonhjelm@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:49:52 JST Thomas Magnum

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p
     
     China does occasionally get something right
     
     @dcc @Nimbius666 @irie
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     þernia (pernia@cum.salon)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 00:40:34 JST þernia

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @dcc @Nimbius666 @irie thank you based china
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 01:39:44 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @irie @Nimbius666 Alex Jones, whose wife is Jewish and who has been a long-time vocal supporter of Israel, is probably not the person to use for this. (I don't know if snacks has these or not, but FSE has a fine selection of images of :idiamin:s and :arafat:s and a few :crowley:s; should you wish to represent the other side, we've got at least two of :dayan:, some :sharonsmug2:s, etc.; the emijoms of Charlie Chaplin can double as Hitler if you are careful about presentation. :chaplinsmug:)
     
     While I'm here, because the Nazis' and the Commies' hyperfocus on each other has prompted them to make an informal agreement under the table to omit these inconvenient bits, and because the only sensible thing to do with a sacred cow is grind it into DELICIOUS AMERICAN CHEESEBURGER, the USSR is probably not the best example of "Zionism" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin_and_antisemitism ). Stalin was also buddies with Hitler until Operation Barbarossa, two years into the war, which Germany and the USSR began as allies; he appears to be responsible for some of the massacres of Polish Jews during the war as well.
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 01:39:46 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @irie @p @Nimbius666
     "Antisemites do be mad, we'll do zionism now"
     - "Noooo, you can't do that :alexjones: "
     - "Uhm, okay, we'll build an advanced secular society in russia that tolerates us"
     - "Noooooo, that is worse :alex_jones_meltdown: "
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 02:11:22 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie
     
     > I'm well aware
     
     In that case, hopefully it wasn't too boring. I try to never miss an opportunity to grind some sliders out of a sacred cow.
     
     > Ever since his whole "rich elites have huge organized pedophilia cabals" thing turned out 100% accurate I'm against leftist smugness over his style
     
     Did you see that video of that Nyberg guy that was trying to convince black women at a party to fly with him to a Caribbean island to so he could impregnate them so that he could have a doctor perform an abortion so that he could harvest the stem cells? I mean, as far as I'm concerned, all conspiracy theory bets are off.
     chadburger.jpg
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 02:11:23 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie I wasn't really going anywhere with Jones tbh, it was just one of the emotes on this server I had at hand. I'm well aware socialist antisemitism exists, especially in early utopian socialism and anarchism. Also with Stalin you basically have both, extreme philosemitism and anti-semitism in his lifetime (now that's some anti-centrism lol).
     As for Alex Jones he isn't even as insane as people think, he has personally admitted that he puts extra pathos and exaggeration into his reporting. Ever since his whole "rich elites have huge organized pedophilia cabals" thing turned out 100% accurate I'm against leftist smugness over his style
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 02:18:35 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie I don't follow his reporting, I mainly just see clips of him as memes.
     It's not an unreasonable assumption, Peter Thiel for example literally injects young blood to age slower (that's some dystopian vampire stuff fr)
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 02:37:16 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie
     
     > I don't follow his reporting, I mainly just see clips of him as memes.
     
     I didn't pay much attention to him aside from meme songs until he got banned everywhere. I don't know how old you are, but if you remember when Jon Stewart was doing the Daily Show way back in The Day, like when he was covering the 2000 election fiasco, it's like that. Broad strokes of the news (everything else is a lie anyway, as Jefferson noted) and a lot of jokes, sometimes dark humor. We laugh lest we weep and the news is always depressing. It's also entertaining when he improvises because of the type of thing that happens during live broadcasts, someone isn't ready with the thing that needs to happen next or a caller runs long. Technically it's all improvised, but there's an outline; he's been doing radio a long time so he knows how to avoid dead air in an entertaining way when he's got to operate without a plan.
     
     This was a very entertaining/fascinating article by David Foster Wallace about a local radio host: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/06/john-ziegler-as-david-foster-wallace-saw-him/240402/ . The reason I am bringing it up is because I have an excuse to (DFW is a good writer), and because of this bit: "What's amazing is that when you get new people who think that they can do a talk-radio program, you watch them for the first time. By three minutes into it, they have that look on their face like, 'Oh my God, I've got ten minutes left. What am I going to say?'" If you've listened to enough radio (like you live in Los Angeles and have to commute back and forth from the west side during rush hour), you can hear the things that go wrong and a good disembodied voice ("talking head" didn't sound appropriate for the radio) manages to actually be *more* fun when the parachute fails. Hard to explain, Alex Jones is good at his job; see attached.
     
     > Peter Thiel for example literally injects young blood to age slower (that's some dystopian vampire stuff fr)
     
     Ha, I remember the blood boys; I wonder if he still does that.
     get_ready_pls.mp4
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 07:49:33 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie I do in fact do a radio show semi-regularly, in germany there's thing thing called "free radio frequencies", it started with pirate radios that were so pupular that the state was like "well if they won't stop we'll just give them some frequencies next to commercial radio to go wild with, easier then banning them against popular will".
     It's a music show and not a news show, it's on for quite a while now. I'm somewhat introverted and sometimes even extremely socially awkward, but I can talk on radio to large audiences perfectly fine. I think what it really comes down to is the will to be entertaining as if you would want to be a listener yourself, and passion about what you have to say. When we talk about certain songs before we get the vinyls ready we all go to tangents about weird shit the artists were up to in their lifetime, because we can with a non-mainstream audience that is enthusiastic about it as we are. Also a lot goes wrong, Vinyls too damaged, equipment going wild, software issues, etc. If you know all that you get an idea of how crazy it is that commercial stations can go flawless in their execution for weeks. However while they outclass us in professionalism they do have less soul. Still, remarkable achievement.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 07:49:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie
     
     > I do in fact do a radio show semi-regularly,
     
     AH, okay! Then you probably know what I mean (and probably a lot of
     
     > "free radio frequencies", it started with pirate radios that were so pupular that the state was like "well if they won't stop we'll just give them some frequencies next to commercial radio to go wild with,
     
     Oh, that's pretty cool. We used to have "public access" television stations that were sort of like that. The origin was a little more dull, the idea was first that cable stations, being monopolies, owed it to the market they monopolized, and also that there was some value in letting people build up the skills (professional and technical) needed to put a television broadcast together, since it's not exactly the type of thing you can do in your room. The internet more or less eliminated all of those concerns: you have (in theory) a medium that allows for equal access, global reach, and most of the gear has turned into software that runs on commodity hardware.
     
     > I'm somewhat introverted and sometimes even extremely socially awkward, but I can talk on radio to large audiences perfectly fine.
     
     I believe that. I'm socially terrible, someone asks how I'm doing and I freak out, but public speaking hasn't ever bothered me.
     
     > tangents about weird shit the artists were up to in their lifetime,
     
     Ha, really entertaining stuff. Artists are fuckin' weird, weird shit's great.
     
     > Vinyls too damaged, equipment going wild, software issues, etc.
     
     Ha, yeah, it's kind of amazing how much can go wrong with anything. That must be a lot of fun. I imagine no advertisements, right? Out of pocket on the gear or donations or is there some way of generating profit?
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 08:32:26 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie non-commercial strictly. While it's basically do what you want the legal framework is under the umbrella of public broadcasting. The small office is rent by public money and the equipment is mostly old stuff that has been left over by actual public broadcast stations, dodging the dumpster. It still works fine, as broadcasting equipment is standardized and we broadcast to analogue and digital radio, which has consistent technical interfaces. Our show is also available as a web stream from an old-ass website, but that is more or less hacked together by us and not common for all shows in the house.
     The only legal restrictions are no profit and no explicit endorsements of political parties because of public money, which doesn't affect our music show. Other non-music shows in the house are ethnic minority radios, some show about local events and theatre stuff, mental health self help initiatives and education/ city history, that kind of things
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 08:36:38 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie That's really cool.
     
     > Our show is also available as a web stream from an old-ass website,
     
     I was gonna ask.
     
     > The only legal restrictions are no profit and no explicit endorsements of political parties because of public money, which doesn't affect our music show.
     
     Is there any weird encumbrance from the owners of the music, or can you mostly play whatever you can get onto the turntable?
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 08:59:41 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie
     
     https://www.freies-radio-kassel.de/live-stream.html
     
     The show is live-only for online broadcast aswell and our date is mostly "when people have time" roughly once a month, name of the show is Aoxomoxoa, the Rock caleidoscope. I can give you the date when it's set.
     
     >Is there any weird encumbrance from the owners of the music, or can you mostly play whatever you can get onto the turntable?
     We have 2 guys who are always there and me and others who are semi-regularly there. We bring our physical copies mostly and have a legal public broadcasting license for basically playing anything without getting into trouble with copyright owners. Of course people are somewhat biased in their genres, you got the hippie guy, the heavy metal veteran, the funk expert, etc. I usually bring some zoomer spice with some post-punk, dark wave, goth rock, new indie stuff, etc. On my birthday I even insisted we play a song from Sonic Adventure 2 as a joke, you can really do anything. We also try to feature local bands a lot and indie bands that visit the region (including concert reviews)
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Apr-2025 09:01:55 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie
     
     > https://www.freies-radio-kassel.de/live-stream.html
     > Aoxomoxoa, the Rock caleidoscope.
     
     Nice!
     
     > I can give you the date when it's set.
     
     Yeah, that would be awesome.
     
     > bring our physical copies mostly and have a legal public broadcasting license for basically playing anything without getting into trouble with copyright owners.
     
     That's awesome!
     
     > On my birthday I even insisted we play a song from Sonic Adventure 2
     
     Pro-gamer move.
     
     > We also try to feature local bands a lot and indie bands that visit the region (including concert reviews)
     
     Yeah, main thing I miss about LA next to the food: really good town for music.
     super_sonic_racing.webm
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:28:21 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @smithy @Nimbius666 You're replying to a year-old post.
     
     > Taken piece-meal, I think there's a lot of value
     
     Essentially, everything he said was in one of two categories: wrong or obvious.
     
     But I wasn't talking about Marx directly, and I think most of the stuff I read on there was Trotsky. That site has essentially everything from all of the Marxists; it aims to be complete, as far as I can tell, so there's no editorializing or bowdlerization or censorship or omissions or anything. If you want to read what they wrote, that's a great place to get it.
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     B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰 (smithy@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:28:22 JST B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 Marx has glaring shortcomings in his thought (especially wrt LTV and certain economic presumptions) & his most notable adherents failed as well -- but I think part of the problem is that we take more modern (i.e. mid to late 20th century) Marxists at their word that his work is a singular, monolithic, coherent system of thought with clear correct interpretations.
     
     Taken piece-meal, I think there's a lot of value though, especially in regard to concepts of commodification, reification, and estrangement/alienation -- basically I think the guy had more value on a traditional philosophical and even psychological register rather than economic or sociological.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:35:42 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @smithy @Nimbius666
     
     > I'd say eschew the Marx of (most) self-proclaimed Marxists, but don't throw the baby out w/the bath water - good pieces to scavenge
     
     There is baby-throwing and then there's buying a salad at McDonald's: if you wanted a salad, you should have gone somewhere else.
     
     To borrow from :dmr:
     
     > Here is my metaphor: your book is a pudding stuffed with apposite observations, many well-conceived. Like excrement, it contains enough undigested nuggets of nutrition to sustain life for some. But it is not a tasty pie: it reeks too much of contempt and of envy.
     > Bon appetit!
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     B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰 (smithy@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:35:43 JST B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @p @Nimbius666 I'd say eschew the Marx of (most) self-proclaimed Marxists, but don't throw the baby out w/the bath water - good pieces to scavenge
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     B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰 (smithy@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:46:16 JST B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 My Bad! I am reaccustoming myself to pleroma and think I saw a more recent response in that thread or maybe it was reposted! Didn't even notice it was that old
     
     And wrt marxists dot org -- yes, it's a very useful site. My point was that their idea that "Marxism" is a coherent whole, or at least something that has to be taken wholesale rather than piecemeal isn't true. My only disagreement would be that there is some not-wrong and non-trivial writing.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 31-May-2026 06:48:26 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @smithy @Nimbius666 Yeah, the thread's recent activity has been about the stream, @dadga@netzphaere.xyz is a pirate radio that is also on the internet: https://stream-freies-radio-kassel.de/live.mp3
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     B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰 (smithy@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 01-Jun-2026 07:00:39 JST B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 very fun — caught some jazz last night. Is it 24/7?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Jun-2026 07:01:33 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @smithy @Nimbius666 It was pretty fun when @dadga@netzsphaere.xyz was DJing; jazz guy came on afterwards.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Jun-2026 07:04:28 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • B💣b ❤️‍🔥📿🇺🇸🪆🍀🥋_🎰
     @smithy @Nimbius666
     
     > @dadga@netzsphaere.xyz
     
     GOD FUCKING
     
     The *one* time I spell the domain correctly, I transpose two letters in dagda's name.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 08:14:53 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @p @dagda @Nimbius666 @irie Hi, this is me, with a belated load of fucks.
      ­
     haha hoho.pdf
     53b99af5312ce013aa0520b37bbef3728ad59d28efcd0a8685d4df363dcd6ad3.jpg
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 08:16:25 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @dagda @irie Oh, shit! This should be interesting.
     
     > Stalin called fascists “crows donning peacocks’ plumage” and never accepted them as a socialist state in any serious way
     
     Well, "buddies" as in "military and economic allies", not "BFFs".
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     RedTechEngineer (redtechengineer@snac.lowpassfilter.link)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 08:34:49 JST RedTechEngineer

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     The Federalist papers are a better read.
     fedpapes
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 09:18:46 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @irie @Nimbius666
     
     > The higher I scroll this thread
     
     It is a thread from a year ago.
   • Embed this notice
     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 09:18:48 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @irie @p @Nimbius666 The higher I scroll this thread, the dumber it gets, lol. Well, congratulations, you have discovered one of the 9000⁹⁰⁰⁰ antisoviet books, of which I’ve seen so many, that at some point thrown off the bulk (since it’s just a cack-handed copypaste) and started to collect only the oldest and most hilarious examples.
      In regard to this particular piece of mindretch I can say two things:
      1) The Bund couldn’t be the founders of the Bolshevik party, because they were a separate fucking thing from RSDRP (Russian social democrat party), the part of which (until 1918) the Bolsheviks were. Basically, there was not even any official “Bolshevik party”, because before the revolution they were a part of RSDRP (the common social democratic party), and after the revolution there was only the All-Russian Communist party, which had in parentheses – “of Bolsheviks”. Where “Bolsheviks” was written with a low letter, because it was a term for the people comprising a fraction inside RSDRP, and not a party name per se or of any society. “Bolsheviks” is spelled with a capital letter in English because it’s, duh, English. So, there was RSDRP, and it had two wings: more leaning to bourgeoisie, the left, and the foreign capital, and the wing more insisting on the “power to the people” side. The former were mensheviks, the latter were bolsheviks. Members of Bund (tens of thousands) decided to join MENSHEVIK side of RSDRP. And now the tricky bit, which the author of the drivel you posted clearly didn’t know: in 1903, on the II Congress of RSDRP, there happened the split on mensheviks and bolsheviks. And after the split each side in the published materials claimed to be the one, the only true RSDRP. So, if one doesn’t read carefully, without looking which side of RSDRP claimed something between 1903 and 1918, one may get the wrong impression of events.
      It is indeed, truth, that some influential mensheviks later joined the bolsheviks, like Trotsky, under whose command was the army, but there hardly were many others who were tolerated for their influence. And tolerated for the time being.
      2) First of all, like Wikipedia tells us, there were “tens of thousands” of Bund members. While at the time of October revolution there was 200 000 – 240 000 in bolshevik ranks (according to Molotov, whose party id card was number 5). How they can “spearhead” something this way is not clear. Secondly, the former mensheviks were always a pain in the ass for both Lenin and Stalin, so they were pressed out more and more for every non-Communist step they would take. I can get you a short list of bodies of executive power in SU since 1917, on 35 pages, you can check it for Bund members, if you wish.
      ­
     [BTN] Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei - 03 (1280x720 h264 BD FLAC) [6D1594D4]_00:13:21.300.jpg
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:00:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666
     
     > trying to act peacefully is a police state is doomed to fail
     
     Like trying to be peaceful and own two cows in the USSR.
     
     > Yeah I can just see Lenin gassing everyone doing commerce
     
     Well, they called it "dekulaization" and "Red Terror" but more or less.
     
     > Yet Roosevelt half-jokingly said to his assistant, that he’d be fine, if all the matters of the world would be relayed to Churchill, Uncle Joe, and him.
     
     Churchill was the only reasonable person of the three and even then.
     
     FDR was an idiot and a technocratic Malthusian nihilist, same as Stalin but with a different domestic landscape.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:00:05 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 …the dumber it gets.
     > either lost to fascists
     be a German Communist in Germany
     tell your son what’s going on in the world, tell about how workers defended their power in Russia
     tell how there are bolsheviks who achieved this
     tell your son, that if the nazis come to power, they’ll be glad to lay ten more millions of Germans into the earth for their profits
     it’s 1932 outside
     come to a peaceful demonstration with your comrades
     an assault squad out of nowhere is attacking you
     they are armed, and none of you are
     police comes
     takes the side of the assault squad
     you die in the clash from a bullet
     
     In my opinion, trying to act peacefully is a police state is doomed to fail. On the other hand, since there was no means like instant messaging and sekrit telegram channels, it was easy for the state to hush the information, and continuing to kill the activists. If you have a better idea how to use your right for free speech in a situation like this, I’m all ears.
     
     > …or, once they got power, were indistinguishable from fascists.
     Yeah I can just see Lenin gassing everyone doing commerce, down to kids selling hand-made lemonade. I can just see Stalin whispering to Roosevelt on the eve of the Cold war: “Hey, buddy, you need to invade Brasil, so much oil, hmm!” while glaring at Alaska and thinking how good Russians would live on those southern latitudes… if only the land would be somehow cleared from the Americans…
      Yet Roosevelt half-jokingly said to his assistant, that he’d be fine, if all the matters of the world would be relayed to Churchill, Uncle Joe, and him.
      ­
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:01:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @irie Well, it is a thread. It has recently come back to life for reasons I do not remember.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:01:03 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie You have reposted something from here, and it appeared on my timeline, because I’m following you. Take responsibility now!
      ­
     [Commie] Takamiya Nasuno Desu! - 01 [A24A2396]_0005.jpg
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:01:41 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @irie Or, perhaps, you’re implying that posts from a year ago suffer from a sort of MP3 bit rot?
      ­
     [SubsPlease] Tokidoki Bosotto Russia-go de Dereru Tonari no Alya-san - 07 (1080p) [ECB7B60A] 6:29.68–6:30.97 [LFL-1].webm
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:01:41 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @irie I'm just saying that it is an old thread.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:07:41 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @dagda @irie On the part of economic ties I agree, but on the military side it was “here – yes, there – no”. And, if you read that .pdf, you’ll see, that even the part where it was a “yes” there were still confrontations.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:07:41 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @dagda @irie I'm off to dinner but I will have a look at it.
     
     > even the part where it was a “yes” there were still confrontations
     
     Same as when he switched to the other side after Barbarossa. Sucked for Poland.
     
     In fact, the last days of Nazi Germany were pretty fascinating: Stalin was adamant on the point that soldiers stationed in the east not be allowed to surrender to the US/UK because is concern was that there was going to be a counteroffensive against the Soviet incursions and this was justified because this is what the German troops wanted to do: if they were going to be occupied, they'd rather be occupied by the US than USSR. Eisenhower wasn't confident that Hitler really was dead and suspected a ploy that was designed to start the US/USSR fighting to buy Hitler time to start an insurgency from the south. Churchill was in favor but was in the same boat as Eisenhower. FDR loved Stalin, though, so he would never give the order.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 10:11:33 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666
     
     > FDR was an idiot and a technocratic Malthusian nihilist, same as Stalin
     
     By which I mean that Stalin was a technocratic Malthusian nihilist, not that he was also an idiot. Of the three, FDR was the only idiot.
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     ins0mniak ~Hate Account~ (ins0mniak@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 12:06:29 JST ins0mniak ~Hate Account~

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • ​
     @p @Nimbius666 @dorkvalized Mencken had some great work on Roosevelt.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 12:17:42 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666
     
     > Like ask for work and be sent to die on some malaria infested swamp in the USA.
     
     I ain't said that FDR was not a murderous psychopath, just that Stalin was. "Yeah but you" is some shit I don't even let a girlfriend get away with, so it's like, is it okay to terrorize the peasants or not? I don't think it is, regardless of who has done it.
     
     > That is, hide grain
     
     "If you hide grain, you're an enemy of the state" is already bad enough.
     
     > burn homes, kill people, bring devastation to the land, stir up revolts and make them do the aforementioned things
     
     To do those things *unsuccessfully* was the crime. Stalin does it and because his revolutionaries won, he was the law.
     
     > He was stubborn and refused to yield what he owned
     
     Sounds like a goddamn hero, yes.
     
     > Found an English spy *blows whistle*
     
     :churchillsmug:
     
     > Well, it is your president, so you can call him whatever names.
     
     I'll call anyone whatever names. I'll say Stalin was worse, but I'll hedge by saying it's possibly only because Stalin could get away with it and FDR could not.
     
     > and for that I’l like to see an explanation.
     
     Well, I'll grant you, if I shit on Hitler or Lenin people argue but if I shit on Stalin, almost no one ever does. See Khrushchev's speech, which agrees with the historical record in the US.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 12:17:44 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 > Like trying to be peaceful and own two cows in the USSR.
     Like ask for work and be sent to die on some malaria infested swamp in the USA.
     
     > Well, they called it "dekulaization" and "Red Terror" but more or less.
     The newspapers stamps. To deserve a bullet would require to join an organised crime group. That is, hide grain, burn homes, kill people, bring devastation to the land, stir up revolts and make them do the aforementioned things. Basically to be hard against the law.
      The father of the man who interviewed Molotov, was a kulak. He was stubborn and refused to yield what he owned, to then live like the others, by his own labour. So he was sent to a labour camp, and returned from there a rather huge man, met his son again, they opened a bottle of vodka and discussed why and how it happened.
     
     > Churchill was the only reasonable person of the three
     Found an English spy *blows whistle*
     
     > FDR was an idiot and a technocratic Malthusian nihilist,
     Well, it is your president, so you can call him whatever names.
     > same as Stalin
     and for that I’l like to see an explanation.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 12:21:11 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ​
     @Nimbius666 @dorkvalized "It's fake and a lie if you mention the USSR famines and the ones that weren't fake were the US's fault, and Stalin stops being terrible if Churchill was also bad."
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 12:21:12 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @p Churchill is also directly responsible for the Bengal famine.
     
     This humble call to study more communist theory is now a boomer ww2 thread I guess ._.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:14:50 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @dagda @irie
     
     > I’m getting confused. Who’s he and what other side?
     
     Stalin was allied with Hitler until Barbarossa (that is, until long after the fall of Warsaw, and Stalin kept Poland after the war), after which he changed to the Allies.
     
     > Because the Soviets knew about how surrendered German divisions are not being disbanded, and instead put on rations and train for something.
     
     That is what halted the Soviet expansion, yes.
     
     > What incursions?
     
     All of the ones that were obvious from the USSR expansion that persisted until the wall came down. Poland, Germany, attempts at Romania, etc.
     
     > “The general political goal [of the operation] is to foist the will of the United states and the British empire upon the Russians.”
     
     Yes, FDR was (explicitly) attempting to set up global governance...just like Stalin, who was actually under discussion. I'm not taking FDR's side of anything: I view FDR, Hitler, and Stalin as essentially terrible.
     
     > They didn’t get to choose.
     
     Yes. Stalin made this a condition.
     
     > because the Anglos and the Americans have bought a high-ranked army general (Rommel?) and convinced him to surrender and betray the painter in the bomb shelter.
     
     Doesn't sound plausible, but feel free. Hitler suggested that they surrender to US/UK wherever possible and I think it's reasonable to say that the PoWs taken by the US/UK had better treatment.
     
     > That’s interesting. But where from the south?
     
     I think they thought he'd gotten to the woods: the USSR hadn't made it there yet and there were a lot of areas that hadn't been brought under control in the weeks after Germany attempted to surrender.
     
     > Remembering how you and the British turned Montecassino into a pile of rocks, it doesn’t seem like the rest of the places could survive better.
     
     Well you can't burn all the forests in Europe. But I'm not sure what you're contesting. I say that their thinking was that they hadn't occupied all of Germany yet and were concerned that Hitler was marshalling forces away from the front and that his death was faked as a cover for an escape: that is what they thought, and you can speculate that it's not reasonable to think this but we have hindsight.
     
     > Hmm, I would think that “FDR loved Stalin” is his opponents smearing dirt on him
     
     No, you can look at what Churchill said; FDR didn't want a war with Stalin, however you want to paint it.
     
     > being a “socialist”.
     
     His wife was in the goddamn socialist club in New York. I don't know what you want.
     
     > The primary goal was… it’s hard to tell.
     
     If I take his word for it, technocratic Malthusian nihilism, including population control. You just have to read what he said and what his friends (Dulles, Rockefeller, et al) said: they didn't expect this would get published on the internet and you could back then take for granted that it was easier to control the flow of information. It was easy for people not to notice things that had been stated explicitly. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just the shit the people in question were explicit about pushing, and they were explicit about the means and methods and motivation.
     
     > And as for “FDR would never…” our books say it was either because on the day when the attack on the USSR should’ve happened (July 1st), the US and UK found, that Soviet positions have suddenly changed
     
     Contemporary writing from the generals in question had FDR focused on Japan and Churchill as the only one that wanted a war with the USSR.
     
     > because when in the USA they counted what would it cost to fight Japan without USSR, they’ve already postponed the idea.
     
     This is one of the reasons the US would never have attacked the USSR. The Manchuria push was critical to stopping Japan.
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:14:52 JST ​

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     @p @Nimbius666 @dagda @irie
     > Same as when he switched to the other side after Barbarossa. Sucked for Poland.
     I’m getting confused. Who’s he and what other side?
     
     > soldiers stationed in the east not be allowed to surrender to the US/UK
     Because the Soviets knew about how surrendered German divisions are not being disbanded, and instead put on rations and train for something. In fact, the 12 German division that were on the west, were disbanded only in January 1946.
     
     > because is concern was that there was going to be a counteroffensive against the Soviet incursions
     What incursions? I have an abridged version of the “Unthinkable” of 22 May 1945. And the number one item under “Goals” says “The general political goal [of the operation] is to foist the will of the United states and the British empire upon the Russians.” Don’t ask me, how the “British empire” got there.
     
     > what the German troops wanted to do: if they were going to be occupied, they'd rather be occupied by the US than USSR.
     They didn’t get to choose. And as to whom they can surrender – of course. The German high command thought about it before the troops. I’ve read somewhere that the Northern line of defence yielded easily, because the Anglos and the Americans have bought a high-ranked army general (Rommel?) and convinced him to surrender and betray the painter in the bomb shelter.
     
     > Eisenhower wasn't confident that Hitler really was dead and suspected a ploy that was designed to start the US/USSR fighting to buy Hitler time to start an insurgency from the south.
     That’s interesting. But where from the south? I remember, that some remains were to the south, and some – to north-east (the latter being very scarce, though). It’s just hard to imagine, where could such considerable forces hide to suddenly jump out of the shadows and hit the USSR, US, UK, and some French armed forces? Remembering how you and the British turned Montecassino into a pile of rocks, it doesn’t seem like the rest of the places could survive better.
     
     > Churchill was in favor but was in the same boat as Eisenhower. FDR loved Stalin, though, so he would never give the order.
     Hmm, I would think that “FDR loved Stalin” is his opponents smearing dirt on him for being a “socialist”. FDR was for allowing government more control (which in turn allowed social services to function and then that sweet life, that boomers enjoyed). The primary goal was… it’s hard to tell. Anyway, I guess that oil, logistics and real estate big shots didn’t like him for making their existence more difficult (taxation, inspections etc.). The increase of government control is what happened in Europe too, so that was sort of development stage for the modern states.
      And as for “FDR would never…” our books say it was either because on the day when the attack on the USSR should’ve happened (July 1st), the US and UK found, that Soviet positions have suddenly changed – or because when in the USA they counted what would it cost to fight Japan without USSR, they’ve already postponed the idea.
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     lolitechengineer@loli.church's status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:20:54 JST lolitechengineer

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     • pistolero
     • ​
     @p@fsebugoutzone.org @Nimbius666@comp.lain.la @dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org look man, all the sensible and intelligent people long left that continent by that point. They were doing the best with what they had.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:21:58 JST pistolero

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     • lolitechengineer
     • ​
     @lolitechengineer @Nimbius666 @dorkvalized Yeah, maybe I'm setting the bar too high.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:59:32 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ​
     @dorkvalized @Nimbius666
     
     > “Look, maybe FDR was a murderous psychopath – even though I’m not calling him one – but I’m calling Stalin being one, that I do, yes”
     
     You keep talking like I've ever said a single word in FDR's defense or like FDR has anything to do with the conversation or a post I made a year ago about how socialist authors are not really worth reading. I'm talking about socialist authors, not Stalin (murderous psychopath) "YEAH BUT YOU" so FDR (worst president we have ever had and the beginning of the shitty things that have plagued not only this country but the earth in the years since) isn't relevant unless you want to draw attention away from all of the terrible socialist states which was itself a diversion from terrible socialist authors. It's a way to confuse an internet argument, not a way to assess anything.
     
     > I was speaking of Germany, and you seem to have taken it personally, for some reason.
     
     This is almost certainly you reading into it things that are not present. My position on Germany remains "surrender be damned, we nuked the wrong country".
     
     > Still, I hoped that this conversation could be at least a degree more substantial. Alas.
     
     Thirteen months ago, I was dismissive about socialist authors (whom I have read and I found nothing redeeming). I don't know what you think the conversation is supposed to be. The reason the thread came back was that dagda was DJing. In as few words as possible, what are you hoping to discuss?
     
     > Hide as in “refuse to give a portion of grain that’s due to the state and proportionate to the acreage of land, and pretend you don’t have any”.
     
     As Kasparov noted, the first year they demand you share, the second year they accuse you of hoarding, and the third year you're hauled to the gulag. The state is a parasite; socialist states are just somewhat more aggressive.
     
     > The “success” being continuing to exploit the local farmers like under tzars
     
     Right, the USSR never exploited farmers.
     
     The crime was being on the losing end: a revolutionary that loses is a brigand. That's all. We ourselves had a revolt and history would have recorded it differently had the fortunes been reversed; we had another revolt and it was put down and the perpetrators of that revolt were recorded as misguided. This is how history works: the victors write the history books.
     
     > My bad, “owed”.
     
     Taxation is theft and the state is a parasite.
     
     > I’d like to think, that the street is only a street,
     
     I can say a street I've driven is a pain in the ass, I can say it's a nice street with broad lanes and little traffic, but a man is not a street. I can characterize Stalin however I like; you may disagree and characterize him however you like.
     
     > Choose one.
     
     I will say that, although I hate FDR, he was held back by the domestic situation and given that, I'd rather have lived under FDR in the US than Stalin in the USSR. Now, I can also say, you know, if the option was to live under Stalin in the USSR or FDR in the USSR, I would have to flip a coin, because I don't think there would be much difference.
     
     > By that logic, if no one spoke of Australia, it shouldn’t exist.
     
     I was just remarking that it is unusual to hear someone attempt to defend Stalin. That's all.
     
     > “My state approves this version of the history of your country”?
     
     No, "Here are the things that the USSR and USA both agreed on, so there is very little reason to argue unless you can demonstrate that both had an incentive to lie about this specific topic."
     
     > all 61 accusations against Stalin were lies.
     
     I've heard similar about Hitler. Khrushchev knew Stalin personally; I don't think it is a stretch to say that Khrushchev's remarks that Stalin built a cult of personality is far from the truth. You are free to disagree.
     
     > But I also know of one author, an American historian
     
     An American and a Soviet were arguing. The American says that the American way is superior because of our freedom of speech. The Soviet says "We have that, too." The American says, "No, you don't: I can go to Capitol Hill in the middle of Washington DC and stand up and announce to everyone in the capital that the American president is a dangerous idiot. That's real freedom of speech!" And the Russian says, "We have that, yes." And the American gets incredulous and says, "No, you can't do the same thing!" So the Russian responds, "Of course I can: I can go to the middle of Red Square, stand on a soapbox, get a bullhorn, and announce to everyone in Moscow that the American president is a dangerous idiot!"
     parasite.jpg
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     ​ (dorkvalized@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jun-2026 14:59:35 JST ​

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     • pistolero
     @p @Nimbius666 > I ain't said that FDR was not a murderous psychopath, just that Stalin was.
     “Look, maybe FDR was a murderous psychopath – even though I’m not calling him one – but I’m calling Stalin being one, that I do, yes”
     Names, names, names…
     
     > "Yeah but you" is some shit I…
     …that you’ve started here. I was speaking of Germany, and you seem to have taken it personally, for some reason. Taking a glance at the timeline, I understand the reason, why the attention may be not so good, as well as the cause of irritation after discussing a Latvian retard. Still, I hoped that this conversation could be at least a degree more substantial. Alas.
     
     > "If you hide grain, you're an enemy of the state" is already bad enough.
     Hide as in “refuse to give a portion of grain that’s due to the state and proportionate to the acreage of land, and pretend you don’t have any”. Don’t make me recite centuries old papers, it’s not a funny pastime.
     
     > To do those things *unsuccessfully* was the crime.
     The “success” being continuing to exploit the local farmers like under tzars, but now on the burned down land, giving the people grain in credit with a high interest, so that they will have to work on your gang’s fields this and the next year, and get them into the good old debt loop that is impossible to break?
     
     > Stalin does it and because his revolutionaries won, he was the law.
     I can see why Vatican, Monaco or some Sealand (lol) may neglect offences to the law. But I thought you were living in a country somewhat bigger than that.
     
     > Sounds like a goddamn hero, yes.
     My bad, “owed”. It’s been too long since my day started.
     
     > I'll call anyone whatever names.
     I’d like to think, that the street is only a street, if I didn’t remember what Plutarch wrote about two youths in “Dionisius the Elder”.
     
     > I'll say… but I'll hedge
     Choose one.
     
     > Well, I'll grant you, if I shit on Hitler or Lenin people argue
     I can see, why, but I probably wouldn’t agree with any of them.
     
     > but if I shit on Stalin, almost no one ever does.
     By that logic, if no one spoke of Australia, it shouldn’t exist. What would we do without atlases and encyclopedias…
     
     > See Khrushchev's speech, which agrees with the historical record in the US.
     “My state approves this version of the history of your country”? Well, if you’re going to stand on Khruschiov’s point, I have good news for you: when the USSR collapsed and the archives were opened, it turned out, that all 61 accusations against Stalin were lies. I could bring some from my mind, but writing would be exhaustive. I could reference some books, including the interviews with people who were silenced for the rest of their lives to make Khruschiov look “uncontested”. But I also know of one author, an American historian, whose work is just specialised on this subject. I’ll try to attach it.
     
     > :churchillsmug:
     сталин_playful.jpg
     GF_.pdf
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 05-Jun-2026 02:42:47 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ​
     @Nimbius666 @dorkvalized
     
     > scientific socialism
     
     No, this is exactly the pretense that turned the naive philosophy of French positivism into the hellish technocratic Malthusian nihilism that the earth currently enjoys. What you are describing is a justification for society-wide engineering. "Scientific governance" has been a plague and it has given us the worst disasters of the 20th century and has created the excesses of the 21st century. It's a core facet underpinning socialism (which Marx sold as "scientific" at a time when "science" was a buzzword; cf., "Christian Science") as well as all of the disastrous policies from every other "We can just add up the numbers and quantify human suffering" motherfucker from Dulles to Rockefeller to McNamara to Ford to George Bush and Hillary Clinton. Utilitarianism's fatal conceit is not materially different from consequentialism's. This is a disease and all of the institutional corrections you throw at it won't stop it from being a means of top-down governance and refusing to leave people alone.
     
     The core supposition of these totalizing ideologies is that society is to be managed. Socialists always treat that as a given. You see institutions like the World Bank Group as some sort of capitalist conspiracy for which socialism is a cure and they are not different in any important way: the fundamental divide is attempting to engineer humanity versus staying out of humanity's way. Even if we run with your (terrible) premise that only communism is capable of self-correction, "self-correction" means that you can successively approximate an optimal form of totalitarianism: it's still totalitarianism. Anyone that threatens a subsistence farmer with state authority is a goddamn monster, full stop.
     
     > Stalin wasn't perfect
     
     "Hitler wasn't perfect."
     
     > On Churchill I struggle to recall even an account by Parliament or passing admission of guilt related to churchills racist tirade against Bengal and its ensuing famine.
     
     I don't hear Marx, Stalin, FDR, or Gandhi apologizing for any of their racist tirades. I don't know what that has to do with anything. I don't think Stalin apologized for Holodomor to the Party Congress.
     
     Churchill knew what Hitler was. This is really all that was needed for the time and place. Hitler had to attack Stalin for Stalin to give up on the alliance.
     
     > But because capitalism does not self reflect or study its failures
     
     This is because you see exactly two branches, and it sounds like if you talk to a cop and the cop literally refers to the people he arrests as "the bad guys". There are authoritarians that see humans as something to be managed rather than led, humanity as cattle, and there are people that see human life and liberty as an end in itself and that get out of the way of letting humans live. I don't care which flag they're waving: either they leave people alone or they don't.
     Robert_McNamara_official_portrait.jpg
     socialism_souffle.png
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Friday, 05-Jun-2026 02:42:48 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • ​
     @p @dorkvalized youre missing the point. Communism learns and adapts through a process called self criticism and scientific socialism. Stalin wasn't perfect, and was analyzed thoroughly during the process of kruschev led destalinization. In the wider context intellectuals of the renmin ribao and CCP also delivered criticism that drove admissions of Stalins failures by soviet leadership itself. Stalins leftist dogmatism and cult of personality were both directly attributed in the documents of the CCP (the great debate, 1960-1963) as having a serious impact on governing the country effectively. Its why in 2026 you dont see Chinese media with memes of Xi Jinping; Stalins cult of personality drove his paranoia, which is a failure Chinese scholars seek to avoid repeating.
     
     On Churchill I struggle to recall even an account by Parliament or passing admission of guilt related to churchills racist tirade against Bengal and its ensuing famine. Royalists will insist it never happened, prime ministers will praise his military genius, and the media will jovially recall fond tales of his love of drink and smoke.
     
     But because capitalism does not self reflect or study its failures, it is doomed to an endless cycle of repeat and ruin.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 05-Jun-2026 03:17:17 JST pistolero

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     • ​
     @Nimbius666 @dorkvalized
     
     > Scientific socialism in Marxism is the application of historical materialism to the development of socialism.
     
     I know what's on the brochure. You wanna talk about sci-fi, Lysenkoism is historical materialism applied to plants because Marx said that Darwin was wrong about competition.
     
     Do "science" on someone else, and make sure it's far enough that I can't smell the mass graves from here.
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     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Friday, 05-Jun-2026 03:17:18 JST Crispy Branzino

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     • pistolero
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     @p @dorkvalized I dont know how you arrived at any of these conclusions outside the pages of a sci fi novel.
     
     Scientific socialism in Marxism is the application of historical materialism to the development of socialism. Scientific socialism is a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments. It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as utopian socialism—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability
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     Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp: (melgibsonafter4beers@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 08-Jun-2026 08:40:15 JST Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp:

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     • pistolero
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     Tfw Stalin considered himself a "Russified Asian" man.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 08-Jun-2026 08:41:58 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp:
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     @MelGibsonafter4Beers @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @irie @dagda That is onnacounta Europe is a serf continent.
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     Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp: (melgibsonafter4beers@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 08-Jun-2026 08:41:59 JST Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
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     "Whatever else may divide us, Europe is our common home; a common fate has linked us through the centuries, and it continues to link us today." -Leonid Brezhnev
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 08-Jun-2026 09:06:40 JST pistolero

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     • Autism is a Choice :verified: :njp:
     • EmoDagda
     • イリエ
     • ​
     @MelGibsonafter4Beers @dorkvalized @Nimbius666 @irie @dagda I mean, Turks were called "Asians" back when Stalin were wee.