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what the fuck kind of heresy are you recommending to me now youtube
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@grey >Gnosticism
I hate these people so much. I don't say that often, but their constant attempts to undermine rather than devoting a fraction of the same efforts towards simply living a life for God... It infuriates me. I used to find it funny because it was absurd, now I mock them to keep myself from fuming.
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My own views are, while called "gnostic" essentially what I've always thought, that the world is simply that, it's not evil or created by evil, nor is it created by good, it emerged from the Aether (which IMO could have been the big bang, though who knows really), to be clear this isn't Atheist Siegfried, It's part of the religion I hold.
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Aye, while I do believe in becoming better over lives due to worth, it's not to escape the world as the world's not evil (I'm a Pagan, and what kinda Pagan would I be if I thought that lol)
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @BowsacNoodle That's not Gnosticism at all, a gnostic view explicitly sees the world as fundamentally an evil prison, and requiring a personal transformation based hidden knowledge to "ascend" or "escape" to wherever or whatever that particular cult thinks is the goal. This is why it's often said that the philosophy underlying the Trans movement is gnostic, they see the way they were born as fundamentally evil and require the gnosis of transition to become their authentic selves.
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @grey Yeah I don't think your ideas fit with what I'm talking about when I say "Gnostic". I'm talking about dumbass cults built around
>"what if God is AcKshUaLLy le bad"
a priori arguments. Only their super secret knowledge can help you free your mind! It is classic cult behavior, and it's very obviously a subversive thing targeting people who are searching for truth. The world is messed up, that much is true, but it's not messed up because the demiurge or psychic archons stealing our energy or any of that retarded stuff. Nothing in Christianity is hidden, and I think the simplicity of Truth is hard for people who are constantly used to being rugpulled because the world is messed up.
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@BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @grey gnosticism is better as mythology rather than genuine belief. Real belief in it is just an instant cheat code for insanity.
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For some reason Wikipedia describes Von List‘s beliefs as somewhat Gnostic (I mean the article is fucking awful in a fair few other ways but I digress) so just covering my ass slightly lol
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @BowsacNoodle @grey gnosticism is essentially the opposite. Gnostics won't be convinced that the world is actually alright by the beauty of the world. Pagans would, considering most ancient European beliefs center around nature.
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey It's occultic in its origin, but not exactly competing in the same domain as 'capital G Gnosticism' which is an attempt to subvert Christianity. There are a number of Christians who don't read their Bibles with consistent exegesis and come to conclusions about The Old Testament God being of wildly different temperament and character from New Testament God, and I have even heard sermons on this. People see the fire and brimstone and genocide and the contextual understanding is lost on them, so the temptations to take an easy answer is big. Gnostics come in and say things like
>"Genesis is a foreshadowing. Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the serpent He is going to crush is ackshually the OT God, because the world was made imperfect by a bad creator!"
When you hear this after being never having any proper spiritual formation or being taught how to actually read The Bible properly, it can lure you in. People then rationalize their confusion and cognitive dissonance by simply withdrawing from their faith or becoming "spiritual but not religious" etc. Lots of evil things start out with people taking bad advice and reading books and arguments they're not spiritually mature enough to handle.
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey rules for anime depicting religion:
>Want someone to be a foreign religion?
Christianity
>Want to talk about spooky things and demons?
if good and evil exist, Norse or Greco-Roman
if mostly evil, gnosticism
>want to show magic spells, sigils, and alchemy?
Star of David and Kabbalah.
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It’s also quite good inspiration for media (Pic rel is named Demiurge and uses Yaldabeoth as an alias lol) can’t think of any more off the top of my head cus didn’t sleep but know it exists lol.
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@BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey One of the most impressive things I have ever attempted to read was *Against Heresies*, by St. Irenaeus of Lyon. In it, he basically constructs Classical Hellenism from the ground-up, refuting everything that needs refutation, and completing everything else with the God-Man Jesus Christ as Himself the LOGOS.
Now, I’d obviously heard about Classical Hellenism, but it hadn’t really occurred to me it was an entire, comprehensive, corporate/collective domain of specialized knowledge, constructed over centuries by trained professional men who had devoted their entire career-lives to establishing it.
St. Irenaeus was clearly and exhaustively familiar with it.
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey Found it online archive....
https://ia804501.us.archive.org/11/items/SaintIrenaeusAgainstHeresiesComplete/Saint%20Irenaeus%20Against%20Heresies%20Complete...
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Internet Archive
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IA is great ngl
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Iowa ??
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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @BowsacNoodle @WhiteJihadJaws @grey "Neon Genesis Evangelion" did touch on the Kaballah. And I think "Full Metal Alchemist" touched on either the Kaballah or Judaism on the whole (including a plot point where the energies of alchemy in that universe were drawn from The Six Gorillion in our world that existed parallel to theirs).
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I think the hexagram is somesort of magic symbol outside the goblin context lol, only series I’ve seen touch Kabbalah is Fate/Tsukihime (and did they have to make Kabbalah Rabbi Aviceborn look so cool lol, though he is a villain as you’d expect lol), though that’s cus it touches on most everything lol.
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@skinwalkerq400 @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey > :Ackshually: the six gorillion fueling alchemy is from the FMA movie and that's not canonically valid
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@BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey @Thickasabrick Oh yeah, forgot to mention the whole reason I brought it up, is because Classical Hellenism was the cultural/religious milieu in-and-from which ancient Gnosticism developed. St. Irenaeus primary reason for such a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal was precisely because he was up against an entire civilizational worldview unlike any other; built up as it were by scores of history’s most brilliant philosophers and their men over several centuries. Gnosticism could and did take myriad twists and turns to seize and control Ancient Christian thought, leading it into something different than what the Apostles received from The Lord. St. Irenaeus was evidently successful, as the Ancient Greeks overwhelmingly became Orthodox in a few generations.
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@Thickasabrick @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey Yep yep; that’s the one. I’m convinced a trained professional scholar could devote his entire academic career to this document and its dependencies, and still find new things to discover on a given day. I typically say similar about the Dionysian Corpus, but I’d argue this one is even bigger and broader in scope.
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey @Thickasabrick I mean, just by looking at some accounts of gnosticism (I have Plotinus’ account in mind) and Manichaeism, this is much less about “reconciling differences” and much more about fuelling the ego of specific cult leaders
Gnosticism is alien to at least two of the ”great giants” of classical Hellenism, so to speak - Plato and Aristotle.
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey @Thickasabrick Hot take: “gnosticism” shouldn’t really be conflated with “classical Hellenism”
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@plotinus_enjoyer @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey @Thickasabrick Okay, fair point; I already have these walls of texts, and have to take “shortcuts“.
Q: Does Gnosticism = Classical Hellenism ?
A: No.
Okay; is one related in any way to the other ? Yes, I do believe there is a meaningful connection between the two. I enjoy talking about it.
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@plotinus_enjoyer @BowsacNoodle @Witch_Hunter_Siegfried @WhiteJihadJaws @grey @Thickasabrick In my reasoned opinion, flawed though it is and may be, I am convinced that “Gnosticism” represents a fairly broad family of syncretistic attempts at reconciling the conflicts and dramatic tension that existed/exists between Apostiolic Christianity, and Classical Hellenism (including some other significant religious influences current in the Mediterranean World at the time).
I’m not a recognized authority on the subject; merely a very interested and somewhat educated layman on the topic. I set out at one point to understand why and how Orthodoxy became the nearly-unanimous opinion of the Ancient Greeks, as I‘m convinced such an understanding yields valuable insight into everything.
As usual, I’m not interested in getting into religious arguments on the internet; this is all primarily a learning exercise for my own and my family’s edification.
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It’s been years and watched both before I was redpilled so didn't pick up on it lol
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