Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 00:40:15 JST Rich Felker

   • Kat Marchán 🐈
   • Gorgeous Killer
   • bl00dy :archlinux:

   @zodiepupper @Cosmix @zkat @bl00dy @are0h The "my friend is involved with that so it can't be doing anything wrong" fallacy is how injustice thrives and how we got into most of the shit we're in.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 02:19:43 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo "Very accepting of anyone else there" is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM if that includes accepting of nazis.

     Considering gender a "sensitive topic" that's "against the rules" is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM.

     Utter clowncar project.

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 02:19:44 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     @dalias Hello, just wanting to chime in as "the friend who is involved".
     From personal experience in the ladybird project, everyone there seems very accepting of anyone else there.
     Most discussion in the Discord stays focused on Building a Browser.
     Sensitive topics like politics, ideology and gender are against the rules.
     From what I can tell this does a good job at focusing the discussion on building the browser and I like having a space where
     (1/2)

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 06:36:56 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo You've told me everything folks need to know about Ladybird.

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 06:36:57 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     @dalias I disagree on both accords.
     If Nazis have to leave their Nazi stuff at the door and be respectful and accepting, I do not see what good ostracizing them for unrelated-to-the-project views does.
     It will not change their views, it will not limit how they can spread their views and, at worst, push them into echo chambers and further worsen their opinions on people.
     (1/2)

     Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:52:23 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo If a project explicitly tolerates nazis as long as they check their nazi stuff at the door, and doesn't tolerate anyone saying that's not okay, you will not have anyone but people ok with nazis working on the project. I.e. nazis. And what you make will reflect their values even if they can't discuss those values publicly. In a way they even can! They're allowed to say "no politics here" which means "no one who objects vocally to nazis here".

     The experience you described is called "niceness" which is not akin to "kindness" but the opposite of it.

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:52:24 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     @dalias And I would like it if you told me what I need to know about huge fucking problems because I prefer not supporting racists, nazis and transphobes myself.

   • Embed this notice
     :PUA: Shlee fucked around and (shlee@aus.social)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:53:15 JST :PUA: Shlee fucked around and

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @dalias "leave their Nazi stuff at the door" lol... what's your address for your delivery of large clown shoes

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:54:18 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • :PUA: Shlee fucked around and
     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @shlee Thanks for demonstrating what we're all saying. That you care about politeness not justice. Which is what nazis always do.

     Fucking nazi browser project.

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:54:20 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     • :PUA: Shlee fucked around and

     @shlee @dalias wow, rude :/

     Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     :PUA: Shlee fucked around and (shlee@aus.social)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:54:25 JST :PUA: Shlee fucked around and

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @dalias "Why do people hate being called nazi lovers but don't have a problem with nazis?"

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:55:21 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • :PUA: Shlee fucked around and
     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @shlee You "dislike nazis" but spend your time online defending policies that defend policies and arguing with everyone critical of those policies... 🤔

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 22:55:23 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     • :PUA: Shlee fucked around and

     @shlee I don't know for anyone in particular, but my guesses would be:
     1. Hypocricy + it being bad optics
     2. Disagreements over who does and doesn't qualify as a Nazi
     3. Not actively taking issue with and working against something does not mean someone loves that thing

     If you're trying to make a point about me with that, no one's called me a Nazi lover yet and I very much dislike Nazis.
     So if that's the case, please be more direct in what you mean, otherwise I can't give you a proper response.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Mar-2025 23:16:19 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo I'm going to go further here into the specifics of a browser project. Nobody makes something as big as a browser without some values for what the project wants to achieve. Those may be directly commercial or otherwise exploitative (Chrome), but regardless they're some motive for people to work on the project that guides all the decisions they make.

     This requires being able to talk about those values and how different choices might impact, or have been found to impact via feedback, align or misalign with those values.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 03-Mar-2025 01:09:42 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @jwcph I really don't care to hear your sophomoric treatise on the causes of intolerance or whatever. We're in a world where nazis are in the process of genociding and all the actual experts agree you don't solve this by including the nazis in hopes they'll become better people then banning talking about the horrible things they're doing.

   • Embed this notice
     Psychpsyo (psychpsyo@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Monday, 03-Mar-2025 01:09:43 JST Psychpsyo

     in reply to

     • JWcph, Radicalized By Decency

     @jwcph @dalias
     Ok, I might be naive and misinformed on this, and I'll take a step back here to lay out some other opinions of mine that tie into this so this will be long, but, in my personal opinion:
     I think hate against groups of people (racism, transphobia, etc.) tends to come from a lack of knowledge and understanding, a feeling of other-ness that leads to an us-vs-them mentality, and an environment that tolerates or encourages expression of that hate.
     (1/10)

   • Embed this notice
     JWcph, Radicalized By Decency (jwcph@helvede.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Mar-2025 01:09:44 JST JWcph, Radicalized By Decency

     in reply to

     • Psychpsyo

     @psychpsyo @dalias I'd ask you to explain how letting Nazis pretend to be decent people is a good thing, when their actual worldview, which they go back to when they walk out the door, explicitly centers around depriving everyone else of basic rights like not getting killed - but I'm pretty sure you would, because it doesn't seem you get the problem.

     Back in 40's Germany they had a name for people who accepted Nazis. They called them Nazis.