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iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:17:15 JST iced depresso
- Forest of Enchantment
@Forestofenchantment yes, and literally step over the part where i agreed that ukraine didn't start the war lol

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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:26:36 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  - Ignas Kiela
  - Forest of Enchantment
  @ignaloidas @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment I happen to agree with them but there is probably some value-neutral term that still amounts to the same thing
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:26:38 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  - Pissed Hippo
  @sun@shitposter.world @icedquinn@blob.cat @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co like 60% of people said that they shouldn't have elections during war, so it's not like there's much pressure from the citizens
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:26:39 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment didn't ukraine suspend elections during martial law
  
  maybe it is justified but it's clearly not "democratic" or whatever
  
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  iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:27:53 JST iced depresso
  in reply to
  @sun @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas autocrat is the kindest term for that mode of government.
  
  though dictatorship and imperator are classically accurate words for the same thing. it's just people fussing with connotations.
  
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  iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:30:28 JST iced depresso
  in reply to
  @sun @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas i'm actually just genuinely offended now because i tried to do the adult thing and leave the conversation and people are being pieces of shit about it.
  
  :cirno_doubt:
  
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  iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:32:16 JST iced depresso
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @Forestofenchantment @sun yeah it happens.
  
  there is a dichotomy though because in wartime countries also tend to shut down journalism and speech so its illegal to criticize the war, and then they can gesticulate about how everyone supports the war
  
  if you are anti war in a warring country you are forced to shut up or escape which skews the metrics
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:32:17 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  - Pissed Hippo
  @icedquinn@blob.cat @sun@shitposter.world @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co neat, UK was an autocracy during WW1 then I guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War-time_electoral_pact
  
  like, I don't see any problem in not doing an election during wartime if there's no pressure from the citizens - the only pressure right now is coming from outside
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    War-time electoral pact
    
    The war-time electoral pact was an electoral pact established by the member parties of the United Kingdom coalition governments in the First World War, and re-established in the Second World War. Under the pact, in the event of a by-election only the party which previously held the seat would nominate a candidate, and the other coalition parties would stand aside. This led to a number of unopposed by-elections as well as strong showings and surprise victories by third party candidates. The 1914 to 1918 truce was officially broken in June 1918 when the Labour Party decided that the truce should no longer be recognised, although no Labour candidates were nominated before the 1918 General Election. References
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  iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:34:27 JST iced depresso
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @Forestofenchantment @sun i have no idea what you mean. the united states where i live has explicitly jailed people for trying to protest the draft in the past.
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:34:29 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  - Pissed Hippo
  @icedquinn@blob.cat @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co @sun@shitposter.world neat attempt to put words into peoples mouths right there
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:40:57 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @sun how “wartime” do you have to be?
  Would you support Donald Trump staying in office if he declares war on Iran? Would you have supported 20 years of Bush Jr over Afghanistan?
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:40:57 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  @sapphire@shortstacksran.ch @icedquinn@blob.cat @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co @sun@shitposter.world I think "bombs regularly falling on and near major cities" is wartime enough. If you cannot guarantee the safety of election goers, then you shouldn't run them.
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:44:51 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @sun we ran them in 2020 during a pandemic.
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:44:51 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  @sapphire@shortstacksran.ch @icedquinn@blob.cat @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co @sun@shitposter.world with a fuck ton of risk reducing measures
  
  it would be pretty fucking hard to reduce the risk of a drone strike to a polling center
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:48:29 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @sun oh, were we going to polling centers in 2020? I forgot about the massive mail-in voting campaign and I'm sure you did too because its really convenient for your side to forget about the 30 million extra votes it supposedly created.
  
  But I digress, my point is you can absolutely run elections in a warzone if you're not an autocratic outsider trying to hold onto his meal ticket for as long as possible
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_United_States_presidential_election
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_United_States_presidential_election
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    1812 United States presidential election
    
    Presidential elections were held in the United States from October 30 to December 2, 1812. In the shadow of the War of 1812, incumbent Democratic-Republican President James Madison defeated DeWitt Clinton, the lieutenant governor of New York and mayor of New York City, who drew support from dissident Democratic-Republicans in the North as well as Federalists. It was the first presidential election to be held during a major war involving the United States. As no significant British incursions into American territory had occurred by that time, and Britain's war strategy was largely defensive, the election proceeded without disruption. Northern Democratic-Republicans had long been dissatisfied by the Southern dominance of their party, and DeWitt Clinton's uncle, Vice President George Clinton, had unsuccessfully challenged Madison for the party's 1808 presidential nomination. While the May 1812 Democratic-Republican congressional nominating caucus re-nominated Madison, the party's New York caucus, also held in May, nominated Clinton for president. After the United States declared war on the United Kingdom in June 1812, Clinton sought to create...
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    1864 United States presidential election
    
    Presidential elections were held in the United States on November 8, 1864, near the end of the American Civil War. Incumbent President Abraham Lincoln of the National Union Party easily defeated the Democratic nominee, former General George B. McClellan, by a wide margin of 212–21 in the electoral college, with 55% of the popular vote. For the election, the Republican Party and some Democrats created the National Union Party, especially to attract War Democrats. Despite some intra-party opposition from Salmon Chase and the Radical Republicans, Lincoln won his party's nomination at the 1864 National Union National Convention. Rather than re-nominate Vice President Hannibal Hamlin, the convention selected Andrew Johnson of Tennessee, a War Democrat, as Lincoln's running mate. John C. Frémont, who had been the Republican nominee in 1856, started to run as the nominee of the new Radical Democracy Party, with War Democrat John Cochrane as Frémont's running mate; the new party criticized Lincoln for being too moderate on the issue of racial equality, but Frémont and Cochrane withdrew from the race in September and their new party dissolved. The Democrats...
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:48:29 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas I dunno man it seems reasonable to not switch horses midstream
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:51:17 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas it's normal and understandable to stop democracy during an existential threat tbh
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:51:18 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @sun @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas sounds like something the people should decide in a real democracy™️
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:52:01 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas I mean you're right that it goes against foundational myth, state propaganda about democracy etc, but it's just practical and realistic and every single country does it
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:52:02 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @sun @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas normal and understandable are foreign concepts to are sacred democracy™️
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:53:22 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas its not unheard of but every war is unique
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:53:23 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @sun @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas I literally posted two elections the US held in spite of wars on the home front, in fact 100% of elections during US wars at home went ahead as scheduled.
  
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  Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:53:30 JST Pete Zaitcev
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  - Pissed Hippo
  @sun @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment I think it's more telling that Zelensky sent his goons to kill and imprison anyone who's suspected of disloyalty. He even busted his mentor and former chief sponsor Kolomoyski. He didn't dare to arrest Poroshenko outright, but he placed "sanctions" on him last month. BTW, murder of Lira was nothing unusual for Ukraine. It only received any play because he had a U.S. Passport. The security services kill people every day.
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:53:30 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  - Forest of Enchantment
  - Pete Zaitcev
  @zaitcev @Forestofenchantment @icedquinn I'm waiting for several years on this for lots of evidence to come out about these things.
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:57:39 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas I actually think that America was functionally over with when the Supreme Court decided that the government could round up ethnic Japanese people because "the Supreme Court won't question the Executive Branch in an existential war"
  
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  sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:57:40 JST sapphire
  in reply to
  @ignaloidas @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @sun "t...that's different, this is different somehow"
  
  again, what's the exact break point of "Democracy can go bye bye" for you guys or is it just dependent on which side the US news media tells you to like more?
  
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  Ignas Kiela (ignaloidas@not.acu.lt)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 05:57:41 JST Ignas Kiela
  in reply to
  @sapphire@shortstacksran.ch @icedquinn@blob.cat @Forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co @sun@shitposter.world Have you fucking read what's in those articles?As no significant British incursions into American territory had occurred by that time, and Britain's war strategy was largely defensive, the election proceeded without disruption.[3]While the Confederacy seemed to have survival potential in summer 1864, it was visibly collapsing by election day in November.There's no end in sight for current war, unlike for the examples you picked
  
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  Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 06:35:53 JST Pissed Hippo
  in reply to
  @Eiregoat @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas putin systematically erased all mechanisms that could legally take him out of power, but he also remains popular. what do you mean
  
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  :spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 06:35:54 JST :spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
  in reply to
  Does Putin get "value-neutral" terms too? Or are they reserved for NATO puppets?
  
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  mothball蛾玉 (西洋巣酸の木) (moth_ball@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 06:39:20 JST mothball蛾玉 (西洋巣酸の木)
  in reply to
  @sun @sapphire @Forestofenchantment @icedquinn @ignaloidas also their law prevents elections during wartime
  
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  Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Feb-2025 07:22:45 JST Pete Zaitcev
  in reply to
  @sapphire @icedquinn @Forestofenchantment @ignaloidas @sun
  meanwhile my finnfriend
  
  "
  >Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.
  Finland held every fucking election through both wars
  precisely because it was deemed extremely important to show that we were a democracy fighting a tyrannical state
  "
  
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