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1. Embed this notice
   Pierre-Yves Lapersonne (pylapp@framapiaf.org)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 17:50:33 JST Pierre-Yves Lapersonne

   Happy #GlobalSwitchDay :blobnomcookie:
   #fediverse #opensource #Pixelfed #Lemmy #Mastodon #PeerTube #Signal
   :boost_requested: :fediverse:

   Original post:
   https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/29629319

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 17:50:31 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @pylapp@framapiaf.org While I agree with most of these.
     
     Please do not recommend Signal as this is proprietary software.
     
     Also do not imply that Signal is part of the Fediverse, this is very misleading.

     翠星石, narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: and Fish of Rage like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 17:51:03 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @pylapp Moxie is explicitly anti-federated services.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 17:51:59 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org who

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 17:52:10 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @pylapp The guy who made and runs Signal
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:01:45 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org Oh yeah I can imagine because otherwise he would've designed it with decentralization in mind.

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:03:35 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @pylapp He's got an essay and a video somewhere where he explains why he thinks it's bad. I hate to admit though that he describes what Fedi became pretty accurately wrt development and extension.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:09:28 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org he describes what Fedi became pretty accurately
     he explains why he thinks it's badI don't like him already, I think Fedi is great. Why does he think this is bad?

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:11:55 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @pylapp Fedi is great socially but the federated server model makes it extremely difficult to upgrade protocols and add features, see also smtp and xmpp.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:42:04 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org >it extremely difficult to upgrade protocols and add features
     
     This is a good thing actually. We should prefer a stable protocol and featureset. I really dislike the "move fast and break things" mentality.
     
     I don't want things to break because some asshole decided they wanted to add a new shitfart feature, from a user perspective I like what I currently have.
     
     I do prefer XMPP's approach over the Fediverse tho. You know, with an actual standards foundation defining RFCs instead of every project just kinda doing their own thing?

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:43:45 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @pylapp there is a FEP system for trying to coordinate, but it tends to be "describe what I already did". My impression is that certain projects are very disrespectful of trying to coordinate with others which is the wrong attitude to have with this kind of system, but that kind of demonstrates the problem
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 18:44:22 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Fish of Rage
     @SuperDicq @pylapp also activitypub would need tons of breaking changes to be actually good
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 19:27:35 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @adiz @pylapp @SuperDicq it's all technical stuff, not at the ux layer
   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 19:27:37 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Fish of Rage

     @sun What isn't "good" that would otherwise be "good" but which would break things? Genuinely curious, because I kinda like things here as they are. @pylapp @SuperDicq

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 19:47:41 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org Even better*
     ActivityPub is already good.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 19:54:32 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Poppy (Back from tha dead) :neofox_flag_trans:

     @radmin@limepeeps.perchinup.top @pylapp@framapiaf.org Occasionally jumping your codebase on Github under a free license does not make your platform usable by people who care about freedom.
     
     It also means that your source code needs to be up to date with the current version that your running and it must be free of binary blobs and nonfree dependencies and libraries.
     
     For example Signal is not available in Fdroid because it does not comply with many of the Fdroid inclusion guidelines (which are already quite lax in my opinion).

   • Embed this notice
     Poppy (Back from tha dead) :neofox_flag_trans: (radmin@limepeeps.perchinup.top)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 19:54:33 JST Poppy (Back from tha dead) :neofox_flag_trans:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @pylapp@framapiaf.org Signal is proprietary softwareHuh, how so? According to both Wikipedia and Signal's Github repo, Signal (both server and client) is copyleft under AGPL-3.0. If you mean that Signal is centralized, run by Shithub, or otherwise run by sus corpos greedier than the entire Fortune 500 list, I can see how it can be proprietary (or as bad as proprietary). I feel that it's still acceptable ethically, though, especially for those still stuck on shitware like Whatsapp and Telegram.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 20:03:14 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • 👺防空識別區👹

     @sun@shitposter.world @adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa @pylapp@framapiaf.org I consider software good if it improves aspects of people's and does not actively make them worse so I consider Fediverse good.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 20:12:10 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org I mean I gotta say that maybe it's easier to coordinate things on XMPP is because the technology is just kinda normiecore and used by actual organizations and such. And they all just kind want the same thing?
     
     On the contrary the entire Fediverse userbase consists entirely of us, the misfits and rejects of centralized social media.
     
     The real reason why we can't coordinate anything is because the Fediverse userbase is probably the most diverse group of users I've ever seen share a single protocol.
     
     We can't agree on anything, but that's probably good. So something will only really get implemented if it really is a good idea.

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 23:02:11 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • pwm
     @pwm @pylapp @SuperDicq no, I have a private telegram chat with a few people where this has been discussed in detail for months. activitypub pretends to be a looot better than it actually is
   • Embed this notice
     pwm (pwm@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 23:02:12 JST pwm

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @pylapp @SuperDicq do you happen to have your thoughts on this written out somewhere? I think it would be worth a read
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 23:06:50 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • pwm
     @pwm @pylapp @SuperDicq I will write it down but I can't share it at this time. I need to interact with some of these people in different contexts
   • Embed this notice
     pwm (pwm@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 23:06:51 JST pwm

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @pylapp @SuperDicq I would encourage you to write it up, for posterity's sake if nothing else. Plus I'm personally curious.
   • Embed this notice
     pwm (pwm@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 23:06:51 JST pwm

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Fish of Rage
     • pwm
     @sun @SuperDicq @pylapp in general I think protocol evangelists are always pretending. You get them AP, nostr, etc etc. You might as well devote yourself to spreading the good word of the hammer and how it is the one true tool to rule all others
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 13-Feb-2025 08:26:28 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haijo7

     @Haijo7@snac.haijo.eu The license does not matter if your software requires nonfree depedencies. It is still nonfree

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Haijo7 (haijo7@snac.haijo.eu)'s status on Thursday, 13-Feb-2025 08:26:30 JST Haijo7

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
     
     https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android
     https://github.com/signalapp/libsignal
     https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
     
     AGPL-3.0
     Yes, it is not part of the fediverse and it relies on github (both through the repo, and through rust (rust's package manager can only manage libraries hosted on github)).
     The application itself is free software.
     
     
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 13-Feb-2025 17:52:26 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haijo7

     @Haijo7@snac.haijo.eu Yes, I can agree that Molly is free software. But Signal is not.
     
     I do not care what bullshit "privacy concern" reason Signal makes up to not support federation of the protocol.
     
     There are many other chat protocols that stay private and federate at the same time such as XMPP and Matrix. If Signal can not make it work with their protocol in field we call that a "skill issue".
     
     In my book Signal is on exactly the same tier as Telegram:
     * Only usable in a freedom respecting way if you fork the official client.
     * Probably in reality not really that private, depends on centralized "just trust us bro" servers.
     * At least normies want to use it?

   • Embed this notice
     Haijo7 (haijo7@snac.haijo.eu)'s status on Thursday, 13-Feb-2025 17:52:28 JST Haijo7

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo sort of. The license does allow people to make forks or use the code in other projects.
     I was not aware that it uses proprietary libraries. I just installed a foss fork called molly (which gets rid of these libraries, without losing compatibility).
     
     Despite the fact signal relies on proprietary libraries (which seem to be present to interface with google play services, which is only possible if you've got those installed), I still think it is a good substitute for big tech messaging platforms. They are very much against sharing metadata. The fellow in charge used the following situation as an example; someone makes calls to a specific number regularly. One day they make a several hours long phone call to a hospital. Then they never call the number from before again.
     The carrier doesn't know what was said during the calls (probably), but the metadata already tells the whole story.
     I think this is an excellent example, so I thought it was worth sharing.
     
     Not sure if this is true, but someone told me that signal is holding back cross platform messaging because of privacy concerns in the proposed concepts for the protocol to be used. (iirc the person who told me this said the protocol is being designed by the EU government, but I'm really not sure. I'll have to look into that sometime)