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If anyone can gainsay what I'm saying here, or dissuade me from this thinking, I'm open to it, but that is basically my take on this.
E Michael Jones goes along with all but that last sentence.
RT: https://poa.st/objects/f06aa905-7295-4634-b4a8-4038706eb752
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@thefinn >This motivated the Greeks and Constantinople to adopt Christianity as its' religion, giving us Eastern Orthodoxy.
I feel like Constantinople was founded as a Christian city??? too lazy to look it up...
Eastern Orthodoxy seems to de-emphasize rationality as say compared to the Western Church and denies being neoplatonic...
Minor quibbles...I feel like I still get your point there
>This basically all means that intellect and intellectual pursuits are divine.
All of them??? I wouldn't forget the fall of man being tied to trying to acquire knowledge forbidden to them...
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@Dagnar @zeke @petra I have to admit after studying what the Jews used to do, I can certainly see the strength in that.
Especially in ancient times, it's almost like CNN reporters knowing what the rebuffs are to certain points on current events. You can change the oral traditions over time to reflect what's going on, and have a written tradition that's immutable for all time.
In this way you can fight almost any culture from a position of strength. It's genius if you look at it.
The problem the Jews have is they wrote their oral tradition down, and reacted to the Christians and Muslims, and we have to overcome that now.
Once we do - they will be broken for all time.
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But it is true. We never did write it down. Oral tradition is the oldest form of human religion. There's a lot to be said for it as well as against.
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@Dagnar @zeke @petra Yeah it's really handy when the religion you follow never wrote anything
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@Dagnar @zeke @petra I'll just stand over here.
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All I have to do is read the Eddas and I'm set.
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@thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Thanks. I'll check out his videos. 👍
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@petra @zeke @Dagnar They aren't terrible. It's a mish mash of culture critique, Jew warfare, Christian philosophy and dogma, and goody two-shoes bullshit.
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@thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Any particular books of his that would be good to start with?
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@petra @zeke @Dagnar I watched a shitload of E Michael Jones videos back in the day.
Like 2016 or so + arguing with prots, pagans, whoever else.
I read up on things and arguments. Some of the prot arguments are so egregious sometimes that I actually look them up online and there's usually a youtube video telling you why they are wrong etc.. lol
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I've always suspected that the KJV was some kind of subversion.
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@zeke @Dagnar Bro don't even get me started.
E Michael Jones opened my eyes the most on it.
That John 1:1 passage was huge. When "Word" actually means "Logos" and Logos means "intellect, logic, reason" - that changes the whole thing.
The entire meaning is lost. And worse - you have all these protestants going "I only need the bible" and they have no idea what they are reading or what it means.
What a fucking farce.
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They would have to give a ruling on passages like Galatians 3:28 and John 4:22 and demand it not be open to different interpretation.
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@Dagnar I'd want to know what the actual translations are for that second one tbh. The word "Jews" didn't even exist back then.
I am wondering if they meant Israelites (but they'd say that if so) or "People of Judea" or what?!
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@Dagnar This shit is why I hate the KJV so much and all the english translations. It's all bunk until you know the context and the real meaning.
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@thefinn @zeke @Dagnar >"I only need the bible" and they have no idea what they are reading or what it means.
This is a challenging belief for people to examine, because they assume you're trying to supplant the word of God with something created by man. Instead, the opposite is true.
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@zeke @thefinn @Dagnar @petra There are teachings transmitted through Kabbalah which have Truth as their source.
That being said, Kabbalah is, specifically, jewish mysticism. Attempts at extracting “pre-jewish” or “non-jewish” Truth from Kabbalah tend to go by alternate spellings, ie “Cabala” or “Qabalah”.
These Truths tend to have been transmitted vis-a-vis Canaanites, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Babylonians … and, importantly, Hellenes; such as Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle - so, a few Aryans there, in the mix.
But reading it through a jewish-mystical lens is, for most intents and purposes, something of a downgrade imo. I’d gain nothing by it, anyway 🤷
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@Dagnar @zeke @petra The Kabbalah is probably aryan in origin.
The freemasons use the same shit.
Allister Crowley used it also.
I can see it. I know it is somewhat real. It's not something I talk about very much, it makes you seem mad.
However, I have tried to instil it around here from time to time.
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"The Kabbalah is probably aryan in origin.
The freemasons use the same shit."
Yes. Exactly right. Shame on us for letting the Jews mindfuck us to that degree.
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As Leather Apron showed, jews only score the highest on verbal communication skills on IQ tests. They are Word Wizards, manipulating words and their meanings to achieve power. All of their Kabbalah revolves around the power of words, spoken and written. Believe in magic or don't, the fact they do gives them some degree of power.
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@BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Someone misunderstanding Sola Scriptura? In the year of our Lord 2025? Say it isn't so!
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@Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar You might enjoy this video. I have tried to get my Protestant friends to watch it and they refuse.
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@BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I did watch it and it seemed to me his issue is with Solo Scriptura rather than Sola Scriptura.
Scripture is the Word of God which means it is the top authority for the Church. If something goes against the Word then it ought to be removed, if it is in line with the Word then it remains. That is the essence of Sola Scriptura. It's not that tradition is of no value or that we should abandon anything that isn't just the Bible. It is that Holy Scripture is the standard by which all doctrine is measured.
That many protestant Christians have abandoned tradition and made the absence of tradition a tradition in of itself is sad. But the blame for that doesn't fall on Sola Scriptura.
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@Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar >That many protestant Christians have abandoned tradition and made the absence of tradition a tradition in of itself is sad. But the blame for that doesn't fall on Sola Scriptura.
I dont know where else the blame could fall, even if it isn't exactly Sola Scriptura. Perhaps . The number of devout believers I know who don't realize Sola Scriptura ≠ Solo Scriptura is a problem. Bad formation is what my side would call it, but they couldn't/wouldn't even have such a concept because they idolize rejection of tradition. There's so many things that are lost by this.
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@Crux_Invictus @BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar INCONTHEIVABLE
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@Crux_Invictus @BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar > It's not that tradition is of no value or that we should abandon anything that isn't just the Bible. It is that Holy Scripture is the standard by which all doctrine is measured.
I agree. Where problems arise, however, is when detailed historical specific Orthopraxes get simply written off as “unimportant” or “unBiblical”, simply because they aren’t specifically articulated enough in the Bible. Many, many such cases.
Baptism by Triple Immersion in the name of the Holy Trinity, for example (mentioned by Fr Josiah in the video). This practice is nearly universally abandoned within modern American Christianity (including, sadly, some who are “Orthodox” in name). The way this is removed is usually by asserting that it’s not specifically articulated in the Bible, and that it “cannot” be Salvationally Necessary - and may therefore be dispensed with.
This whole approach is entirely foreign to Orthodoxy - whether or not any specific Practice is “necessary for Salvation”. We see no valid basis for such reductionism, Scriptural or otherwise.
It might come across as a niggling detail; but on what basis is *this* judgment made? Churches split all the time over these details - it’s definitely not unimportant.
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar What is more important to me as a Lutheran, what makes it baptism, is that there is water combined with the Word of God. It's still baptism if its done by pouring or even sprinkling because God is not limited by the amount of water used.
I can appreciate the rich symbolism of full immersion baptism (dying with Christ and rising again) and if a church makes that its practice then that's great. I just hope they can be flexible when it comes time to baptise someone who for whatever reason may not be able to handle full immersion.
Personally, if I had a viable body of water near my church then I'd happily baptise people via full immersion. As it stands I'm very happy with my baptismal font, which will be centre stage this Sunday since it's Baptism of the Lord.
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@Crux_Invictus @BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Yeah I’m no Bishop, so I haven’t got any say in how the Mysteries are to be ministered. But I do know the Laity have a key critical role in preserving Holy Tradition: if the Bishops start changing things, it’s almost always a bad sign. And if we find out they are heretics, we are to flee from them, as from a burning building. It generally works surprisingly well over the millennia.
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@Crux_Invictus @KingOfWhiteAmerica @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I actually wish I could've been baptized in a river, lake, sea, or ocean. I find that very neat.
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@King_Noticer @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar >no serious protestant would say otherwise
Dude I am telling you that the only reason I have a 'problem' with Sola Scriptura is because it's misunderstood by a LOT of people who actually say things like "I don't need anything but divine inspiration and the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible and be a Christian". It's why I shared that video— it's generally out of piety rather than smugness or rebellion either. It makes it easier to go to a weak church because you can just ignore the stuff your pastor says or church believes if it disagrees with your beliefs. I understand that this isn't Sola Scriptura as Luther intended, and I don't take issue with the classical Lutheran view of it as I understand it. Elevating The Bible above the church organization and its specifics and alternative teachings when an obvious conflict arises makes sense to me. There are probably examples I'm unaware of where I disagree or think interpretation is debatable, but the concept doesn't bother me. Only incorrect application by people building idols of their ignorance, but it is less of a personal bother and more a concern for their soul and those around them who may be misinformed and come to believe sketchy ideas borne of modernity and bad hermeneutics. Pic related.
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@Crux_Invictus @BowsacNoodle @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Hm yes, if it were truly "solo scriptura", then it would be sufficient to just have a bible and read it, but it clearly isn't and no serious protestant would say otherwise
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@BowsacNoodle @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar Well, it's a little hard to say "pic related" when stating concern about people who try to read and understand the bible entirely on their own when it says in the pic related to completely ignore the bible, but I get what you mean
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@King_Noticer @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I hope you got more out of my effort post than "wow you picked a bad meme".
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@BowsacNoodle @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I did read it, and I agree that it's definitely better to have people around you to help you interpret the bible than to just ignore everyone and try to figure it out on your own
After all, the bible is full of stories about why trying to do things your way and ignoring everyone else is a bad thing :blinksmart:
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@King_Noticer @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar If everyone else is being an evil retard, you should follow God. If everyone else is following God, you should follow them and follow God together.
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@King_Noticer @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I didn't know how to interpret your comment dude. Most of the stories I can think of in the Bible of people doing things their own way are because the world around them is wicked. I'd rather come across as patronizing than straight attack you or disagree over talking past one another.
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@BowsacNoodle @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar When I say "everyone else", I don't mean "the world", obviously
Don't patronize me
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@BowsacNoodle @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar I'm not good at words, ok :blinkscrem:
I know what I mean when I say it, but it's hard to make other people know what I mean
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@King_Noticer @Crux_Invictus @thefinn @zeke @Dagnar >I know what I mean when I say it, but it's hard to make other people know what I mean
I know the feel.
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