Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   nixCraft 🐧 (nixcraft@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Jan-2025 23:55:26 JST nixCraft 🐧

   Firefox and Mozilla ignoring the core audience's desire to keep the browser free from LLM is not good news. Ignoring your biggest fans always ends up costing you. I'm just saying. On a related note, someone with engineering and money resources can build LLM-free dumb products, like home appliances, electric cars, etc., and easily make good financial fortunes. People are sick of this LLM and privacy issues. Please stop adding this nonsense to everything

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:, Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: and 10π🍇 like this.
   • Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 05:40:30 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Paco Hope #resist
     @nixCraft @paco This has heavy "I'm the main character" vibes. The loudest users are not the "core audience" or the majority. They never are.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 08:53:07 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Paco Hope #resist
     @paco it's not hard to find anecdotal examples supporting either theory, but this is the internet and we know the loud majority is almost always wrong because the ability to be loud in netizens' preferred echo chambers is so easy.
     
     We've been watching people complain about this for over a year now and it hasn't moved the needle for Mozilla at all. What are they seeing that we're not? Firefox's marketshare over 2024 is basically flat. It has not harmed them at all.
   • Embed this notice
     Paco Hope #resist (paco@infosec.exchange)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 08:53:08 JST Paco Hope #resist

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld I’m not sure on that. “Silence implies consent” is also a problematic approach. The fact that someone is louder than average doesn’t necessarily mean that their opinion deviates from the majority, even if the majority are less outspoken.

     Climate change, for example. The vast majority of people support environmental regulations, decreased pollution, etc. but only a tiny minority vigorously advocate for those things. That tiny, loud minority is in alignment with the majority.

     Back to AI, plenty of studies have been done that showed little to no enthusiasm from end users for AI. I can’t name a single product/service that offers an AI-enhanced version at a higher price than a non-AI version, and then sells more of the AI-enhanced version than the non-AI version. We know that the AI-enhanced products cost more to deliver because AI is expensive. And yet no business is able to leverage the added value of AI to raise its prices to cover the increased cost of using AI.

     My thesis: The value proposition for AI is for the shareholders, not the end users of a product or service. Those shareholders are the problematic vocal minority who put their own interests ahead of the interests of the majority. @nixCraft

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 08:54:06 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Vo
     @Vo comparing open source software making choices you don't like to a nation state being invaded is peak autism :tipshat:
   • Embed this notice
     Vo (vo@noauthority.social)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 08:54:07 JST Vo

     in reply to

     • Paco Hope #resist
     • feld

     @feld @paco @nixCraft this has heavy "why would I bother defending my country from invaders" vibes

   • Embed this notice
     ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦 (jdw@the.mayhem.academy)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 08:54:55 JST ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦

     in reply to

     @nixCraft Let me fix this for you: the infinitesimally small population of people who have spent one minute thinking about LLMs are sick of it. The other billions of people don’t know or care and are happy to just use whatever they’re given.

     Another Linux Walt Alt likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 12:27:53 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Paco Hope #resist
     @paco You and many others consistently try to make the argument that nobody wants this technology; that nobody on the planet wants a pseudo sentient search engine/voice assistant that can understand and remember context. Slap real time voice synthesis onto it and you get an incredible piece of technology that basically emulates the type of Star Trek computer we've based entire corpus of sci-fi works around.
     
     Nobody?
     
     How can you be so certain?
     
     And let me leave you with a Steve Jobs quote n innovation that should never be forgotten:
   • Embed this notice
     Paco Hope #resist (paco@infosec.exchange)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 12:27:54 JST Paco Hope #resist

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld Ok. So their market share is flat. That’s not making the argument that AI is good for Mozilla, either. My point is that end users are not clamoring for stick-a-chatbot-in-there. Nobody is saying “I might switch to a Mozilla product if they had really good AI.” Users don’t want chatbots from Mozilla, from Microsoft, from Apple, or from anyone else. None of this pivot to AI is moving anybody’s revenue needles up, but they are moving everybody’s cost needles up. A reckoning of cost to revenue must come for Mozilla and everyone else caught in this hype.

     The argument is that Mozilla is not doing what its core users want by focusing on AI. We seem to be arguing whether the loud anti-AI people are the “core users” or whether there’s some quiet majority who are more representative of Mozilla’s “core users.” Either way, if their market share is flat, Mozilla isn’t benefitting from its AI efforts. People’s expressed preference appears to be something else. (And I would argue no businesses other than NVIDIA are benefiting from the AI boom, either)

     Maybe AI is orthogonal to Mozilla’s and its users best interests. Neither here nor there.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 14:44:39 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • MMR Nmd

     @MMRnmd @nixCraft The alternative is just turning it off (or rather, leaving it off/not responding to the nag to turn it on in the official FF binary).

     It's really harmful to the ecosystem that this is not explained clearly every time Mozilla does something stupid like this.

     It ends up driving people to Chrome & Chrome reskins where, unlike with Firefox, you *can't* just turn-off/leave-off the misfeatures.

   • Embed this notice
     MMR Nmd (mmrnmd@todon.eu)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 14:44:40 JST MMR Nmd

     in reply to

     @nixCraft
     Been a user of Mozilla/Firefox for 20 years.

     I will look for an alternative if LLM is infecting my browser.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 14:46:18 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦

     @jdw @nixCraft This kind of condescending attitude towards non-tech-focused ppl is infuriating.

     The population who like or are neutral towards LLM-shit is mostly tech dorks, nor normies. Everyone else HATES this shit, wrong answers all over the place while they're trying to find information.

   • Embed this notice
     Buttered Jorts (ajn142@infosec.exchange)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 14:47:15 JST Buttered Jorts

     in reply to

     @nixCraft the problem is that investors have more money than consumers, and investors want to see AI leveraged to take that money from consumers and bring it back to them.

   • Embed this notice
     Jay Baker (mediaactivist@todon.eu)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 20:27:18 JST Jay Baker

     in reply to

     • Sven Jacobs :androidHead:
     • Trinsec

     @svenjacobs @trinsec @nixCraft I finally did. The layoffs, their turn away from the Fediverse, and now this was the final straw. I can live without containers. Vivaldi has a lot of great features of their own (such as workspaces that actually work).

   • Embed this notice
     Sven Jacobs :androidHead: (svenjacobs@androiddev.social)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 20:27:19 JST Sven Jacobs :androidHead:

     in reply to

     • Trinsec

     @trinsec @nixCraft I'm thinking about switching from Firefox to Vivaldi.

   • Embed this notice
     Trinsec (trinsec@trinsec.org)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 20:27:23 JST Trinsec

     in reply to

     @nixCraft@mastodon.social Vivaldi is against AI in browsers and have publicly declared as such.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 21:42:25 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦

     @jdw @nixCraft Um, no, fuck off with that condescending fudshit.

   • Embed this notice
     ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦 (jdw@the.mayhem.academy)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jan-2025 21:42:26 JST ᒍᗪᙎ 🇨🇦

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @nixCraft This is the same mentality that thinks “the internet” is “Facebook”.

     If this infuriates you, you’re going to lose your mind entirely when you realize your are using AI constantly. It’s much broader than going to chatpgt and you have no idea where you’re using it.