Vayl Larkin (they/them)
I'm hearing some conflicting things about on-platform #Racism and I'm hoping to get a more comprehensive picture.
Black Users Only: Why do you still use Mastodon? Would you recommend it to a Black friend and if so, are there resources to help them safely navigate? If you're on your way out, would you feel comfortable sharing where, so I can share? Mostly folks exiting Bsky
Hesitant to ask for free labor and will not be offended if you choose to respond just with hashtags to follow.
Thank you.
myrmepropagandist
The biggest problem is simply because there aren't enough Black people here. A related problem is that there is a kind of elitism that makes this unlikely to change. eg. "it's a good thing only nerds know how to use this place, wouldn't it be awful if the rabble showed up" type sentiments.
1/
myrmepropagandist
The lack of a critical mass on Black people on the fediverse is related to other problems: there aren't a lot of people who work in trades, people who are poor, people who aren't university educated etc. What we have is a college town. And like many college towns it very tolerant and nice ... but there are also huge blind spots, and gaps.
And this isn't something that can be fixed by being "nice" or "mindful" or whatever. 2/
myrmepropagandist
If we want open social media to be a meeting place for people of all class backgrounds, races, religions, and from all over the world that means it'd need to be "popular" ... it'd need to be something that could work for people without a desktop computer who mostly use the internet on their phone.
It'd need to be free for most users and easy to get started. Consider how threads and blueSky have outpaced the fedi mostly due to their focus on these use cases. 3/
myrmepropagandist
A lot of people like that the fedi is a leafy suburb, a sleepy college town. They don't want to have the latest "tea" about rappers falling out on here. They can hardly tolerate people talking about sports.
And to me, this is just so short-sighted and sad. Twitter had many flaws but one of its strengths was that all kinds of people participated and this made it special. Twitter was better than the fedi at diversity. 5/
myrmepropagandist
Of course those corporate walled gardens also have help that we simply can't afford. They have the backing of media. Media has a lot of power in moving people to platforms.
The closest thing the fedi has to a corporate promotional face is "Mastodon" the app, and software development group. I don't feel that this group really cares about serving "the rabble" the vision of a 20-something posting about nail art from her home in the Bronx isn't part of their vision.
4/
Rich Felker
@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet IMO a lot of the problem is self-correcting, but takes time. A large portion of the new arrivals here are not HOA-minded, don't balk at people talking about sports or celebs or whatever they like. But active pushback against the Old Guard is slower.
Fortunately, every time capitalist social media fucks up, more folks migrate, and lots of them stick. Eventually the bad attitudes will be a cringe minority. But it'd be nice if we make that happen sooner vs later.
myrmepropagandist
In the end I don't know what to do about it.
I hope that with time people will keep ending up here as walled gardens fail. A few more people showed up with the migration from X. Eventually, threads and BlueSky will fall apart because that's market model for such places. And people will move here.
Can we at least pretend like we want them to join us? That's all I ask.
6/6
Vayl Larkin (they/them)
Hmmm. Trying to figure out how to tag this to get some responses. "BlackMastodon" has always struck me as more of an intracommunity tag and I don't want to abuse it, but my ignorance is showing and I don't know what to use instead.
For a little more background: I'm asking about this partially because I want to know how places I spend my time treat Black and Brown users, as I myself might not see. My friends who are not white also need better expertise: I won't recc a site I haven't vetted.
Rich Felker
@VaylLarkinPoet I boosted cos I think I have a decent number of followers who might be able to help with reach/responses.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@VaylLarkinPoet I could not possibly agree more, @futurebird - "We", as in the #fediverse, can't both be about the freeedaaaaahm from corporate dominance over all our lives, and also at the same time a gatekept garden, im- or explicitily only letting The Right Ones™️ in. If everybody doesn't have freedom, nobody does - then it's just privilege.
Rich Felker
@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet I know at times I've seen new fedizens poking fun at ourselves celebrating "OMG I saw sportsball on my timeline! that means we've made it!" with the sentiment being that this is a good thing.
Vayl Larkin (they/them)
@futurebird @futurebird Thank you So much! This is far more comprehensive than I hoped for and what you're saying makes a lot of sense even from what I can observe.
I'm unhappy being in such an isolationist environment. I'm kind of a background chimera, jobs ranging from sex worker to tech writer, but I'm extremely frustrated that as a white, trans, disabled person I am safe-ish here, (Bsky/etc. are kind of a nightmare), but other people are really not.
Not sure of the right thing to do.
myrmepropagandist
I think with segregated spaces a first step to just recognize that the segregation exists. Then think about who benefits from it? How do elitist spaces signal "not for you!" to some people? How do these spaces hide themselves?
Think about what facebook started out as: a kind of dating scheme for Harvard students ONLY. Ironically it was capitalist avarice that lead it to expand.
I'm certain you can find old facebook posts saying "there goes the neighborhood"
Dawn Ahukanna
@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet
Even “people of various non-western cultures” with tertiary-level formal education want to spend “precious & limited” time in places & spaces where they’re welcome. Not treated to the ever common & very politely stated, “WTF are you doing here? Go where you belong”. Their current job title, education level, where they live, what they are capable of, etc. (that isn’t stated by the way, but assumed) is secondary.
People are more than “how they earn money to pay bills”.
mekka okereke :verified:
I'm not leaving because I'm not easy to run off from a place. I'm what they call "the wrong one."
Some Black people are constitutionally built to pay "the pioneer tax" of being the first, or the only Black person in a hostile white place, until that place becomes comfortable enough for other Black folks. We exist as lightning rods to draw heat away from Black folk who have better things to do with their time. I'm comfortable confronting racism, especially the liberal kind
1/N
mekka okereke :verified:
I have a bunch of posts about how Mastodon can reduce anti-Blackness. Some of my pinned posts cover it. Here's one:
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/110273797004251326
All of the features leading to BlueSky's recent success (Composable moderation, starter packs, quote posts with Safety features) were first proposed by Black users on Mastodon years ago.
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/113584007329730843
I post in both places: BlueSky and Mastodon. I don't need to post on Twitter anymore, because the community I care about moved.
mekka okereke :verified:
I don't recommend Mastodon *in general* to Black folk, but I do recommend Hachyderm.
There are other good instances for Black folk, but this is the one that I have experience as a user on.
I do think that Mastodon in general will get there eventually.
Quinn Norton
@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet nail, head. Masto isn't a place for everyone and doesn't want to be. Many years ago people here even made it clear I wasn't welcome. So I stayed away until the twitter exodus, since I figured that i could slip in with the crowd.
Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈⧖
@quinn @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet Mastodon isn't a monolith. The Mastodon team wants to be welcoming to everyone. That's also what I, and many others here want. So the people who don't want that are the problem. We shouldn't let them pretend they speak for Mastodon as a whole.
Quinn Norton
@dgoldsmith @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet l the culture didn't have a very welcoming beginning, and it was very tech/FOSS heavy with all the baggage that comes with that. Tech has a deserved reputation of being not kind or civil culture, especially for women and people of color. I don't think it has to stay like that, but you don't get past the roots without acknowledging the reality that the culture has a ways to go.
Quinn Norton
@lienrag @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet I was literally told i wasn't welcome, that i wasn't wanted, and they would attack me and any instance i was on until i left. so i left.
Lien Rag
People are always welcome here.
Some behaviors, though, are not (and should not be).
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