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1. Embed this notice
   Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 05:20:29 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

   Since the tankies seem to be coming out again, a reminder:

   👉 If Russia stops fighting, there will no longer be a war.

   👉 If Ukraine stops fighting, there will no longer be an Ukraine.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:10:26 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Paguro

     @paguro oh I see we have an "it's only imperialism if the occupied land is measured in imperial units" kind of a person.

     How quaint, haven't seen that on here for a while! :blobcatcoffee:

   • Embed this notice
     Paguro (paguro@mapstodon.space)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:10:27 JST Paguro

     in reply to

     @rysiek If Ukraine keeps selling their valuable farmland to the western conglomerates like Bayer (former Monsanto) and friends, there will no longer be an Ukraine even sooner.

     P.s. blackmailing other countries into giving money to buy deadly weapons that get smashed and torn to pieces by the Russians isn't good looks.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:43:15 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Arthur Highhill

     @CountDealmasy

     > posts Kremlin's propaganda
     > Joined Nov 20, 2024
     > mastodon.social

     right.

   • Embed this notice
     Arthur Highhill (countdealmasy@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:43:16 JST Arthur Highhill

     in reply to

     @rysiek

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:44:30 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     @rysiek What kind of tankies would support *either* side of the war?! Most of whom I would call tankies just oppose war, period. And those who aren’t tankies…well, no support for the imperialist proxy war.

     I *would* like for Russia to stop the senseless fighting altogether and leave Donbas, Donetsk, and Luhansk, and I do not believe this can be accomplished by throwing more weapons at Ukraine.

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:44:30 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     @rysiek The ‘liberal position’ of unconditionally supporting Ukraine past the point of reclaiming their territories and invading Russia back actually scares me more than the Russian invasion itself. Western media is scarily competent at whipping up the public into bloodthirsty frenzy, and they manage to do all this without the prompting of their governments.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:44:30 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc

     > The ‘liberal position’ of unconditionally supporting Ukraine past the point of reclaiming their territories and invading Russia back actually scares me …

     I am also quite scared of a bunch of imaginary things, but then I remembered: they are imaginary!

     I highly recommend that strategy.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:49:12 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc

     "Look I oppose all violence, so even if the bigger stronger bully started the fight, the weaker kid should just stop fighting."

     That's very much supporting the bully.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:56:12 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza:

     @gubi if you took a moment to scroll through the thread, you would find that somebody already asked pretty much the same question, and got an answer:
     https://mstdn.social/@rysiek/113517351416546490

   • Embed this notice
     Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza: (gubi@sociale.network)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 08:56:14 JST Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza:

     in reply to

     @rysiek so what would you suggest to Palestine according to this logic?

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:05:16 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza:

     @gubi likewise.

   • Embed this notice
     Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza: (gubi@sociale.network)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:05:17 JST Carlo Gubitosa :nonviolenza:

     in reply to

     @rysiek that one was not an answer, looks like a nice attempt of dodging a reasoning flaw. BTW, I answered to your "answer". 😉

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:07:56 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc I’m thinking in longer terms than that. What happens if throwing more weapons at the problem results in a forever war that leaves Ukraine utterly devastated and forever dependent on foreign economic aid? That’s actually one of the reasons why Ukraine got into this mess in the first place, but I digress.

     Can’t we do better than perpetual war? History says we can, but won’t…and that’s unacceptable.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:07:56 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc we can do better than perpetual war, but that requires that we deal with bullies decisively.

     Dealing with that particular bully indecisively over the last 20-odd years is how we got into this mess. Moldova, Georgia, Syria…

     The line must be drawn somewhere, and it might as well be here.

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:09:39 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc Can’t we have peace talks? Negotiations? A violent revolution in Russia, Ukraine, and the United States that overthrows their imperialist governments? Nope. I guess that while these are certainly solutions that would benefit the people living in these countries, it certainly wouldn’t benefit the ruling class nor line the pockets of the military-industrial complex.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:09:39 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_die_for_Danzig%3F

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:20:16 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc first of all, I don't think the hundreds of thousands killed and wounded over the last 1000 days of war in Ukraine are a "drop of blood".

     Secondly, I think we are smart enough to be able to walk and chew gum. Imperialism and colonialism are bad regardless who perpetrates them. I protested against Iraq invasion, I loathe US colonialism.

     But that doesn't make what Kremlin is doing in Ukraine a "dick move" – it is still state terrorism, attempted genocide, and a war of aggression.

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 09:20:25 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc By the way, what counts as “bullying”? Oh, I agree that invading Ukraine is a dick move by Russia…but, compared to the United States, it’s a single drop of blood compared to the bucketfuls of blood that repeatedly pour over the heads of nearly every single country in the Global South. Again, not a justification or a defence, but have to face facts: #WeAreTheBaddies.

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Import Antifascist (lerxst@az.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:04:17 JST Import Antifascist

     in reply to

     @rysiek I just want to thank you for this whole thread if for no other reason you surfaced a bunch of accounts I could safely block!

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:13:40 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc It’s a “dick move” in that it’s unnecessarily excessive. Despite what the wartime propaganda would have you believe, there *are* in fact a lot of far-right Ukrainian nationalists and literal Nazis—but invading the country is hardly a way to get rid of them. Oh, wait, what was that about containment and the Vietnam War?

     In fighting ‘to the last drop of Ukrainian blood’, whose blood will we use when once the last drop of blood has been spilt?

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:13:40 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc literal Nazis exist in every country on Earth. It was always a pretext, and a poor one at that.

     But people gobbled this up, and to my utter surprise are still repeating it – even in the face of the fact that the Russian state is better described in these terms today than Ukrainian state ever was:
     https://theconversation.com/yes-putin-and-russia-are-fascist-a-political-scientist-shows-how-they-meet-the-textbook-definition-179063

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:16:15 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Import Antifascist

     @lerxst my absolute pleasure, that was one of the reasons for it – and boy did they fall for it! :blobcatgiggle:

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:35:23 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     For anyone who in good faith wants to better understand the deep background of Russian invasion in Ukraine, this is *the* resource:
     https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_

     It's truly captivating, and dispels a bunch of myths, half-truths, and pieces of disinformation around Ukraine and the war, by means of a deep-dive into the history.

     I linked to this a bunch of times in the responses to responses below, but it is too important and too valuable to linger in the depths.

     #Ukraine #Russia #RussiaUkraineWar

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:43:19 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Michal Migurski 🍉

     @migurski already! Man, thatw as fast, I posted this like 5min ago!

     :blobcatpeek:

     Seriously though, same. And will probably listen to it again soon.

   • Embed this notice
     Michal Migurski 🍉 (migurski@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:43:20 JST Michal Migurski 🍉

     in reply to

     @rysiek I’ve listened to this all the way through twice now, it’s so good

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:56:12 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • Krzysztof Sakrejda

     @wronglang I usually don't see much of them, but recently they figured out they might try to capitalize on the fear around yet another empty threat of using nuclear weapons by Kremlin, it seems. 🤷♀️

     Same as the last 5 or whatever times Kremlin threatened such use.

   • Embed this notice
     Krzysztof Sakrejda (wronglang@bayes.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:56:13 JST Krzysztof Sakrejda

     in reply to

     @rysiek wow, there are a lot of tankies in here!

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:13:37 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     • mcv

     @mcv @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc The supporters of Ukraine want peace? I find that hard to believe with continual arms shipments, windfall profits for arms manufacturers, and exploitation of Ukraine’s labour and natural resources.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:13:37 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     • mcv

     @enoch_exe_inc @mcv thank Dog Russian labor is not exploited, Russian arms manufacturers are not making a killing, and natural resources in territories already colonized by Russia are not being exploited!

     How is this never part of the conversation, somehow?

     How is it not part of the conversation that Kremlin attempts a double genocide: that of Ukrainians, but also that of peoples from Dagestan, Buryatia, and so on?
     https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/23/russia-partial-military-mobilization-ethnic-minorities/

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:13:39 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc You got me; I have nothing left to say to you war maniacs.

     What’s been happening in Ukraine (and Israel, and other wars we supposedly peaceful, democratic countries inexplicably support) has made me take a long hard look in the mirror, and I’ve concluded that we are exactly as responsible for the war in Ukraine as Russian disinformation alleges. They’re right—for all the wrong reasons—but they’re still right regardless.

   • Embed this notice
     mcv (mcv@friendica.opensocial.space)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:13:39 JST mcv

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc @rysiek

     The war maniacs are Putin and his supporters. The supporters of Ukraine want peace, not war. But occupation and genocide aren't peace. The war maniacs are the people who want Russia to have its way with Ukraine.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:16:32 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     • mcv

     @enoch_exe_inc @mcv how is it that supporters of a right of an invaded, weaker country are called "war maniacs", and not the supporters of the much bigger, invading country?

     And how, pray tell, should the peace be achieved if one side is constantly breaking agreements it signed, from the Budapest Memorandum, through Minsk Agreements?

     How, exactly, do you think there can be peace in Ukraine, if Putin's stated goal is for Ukraine not to exist?

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 11:19:21 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     • mcv

     @enoch_exe_inc @mcv

     "Those supporters of the bullied kid are violence maniacs! They keep using violence to try to intervene and stop the bully!"

     This is really incredibly tiresome and repetitive. You really need better talking points at this stage, we've been through all of this a bunch of times. :blobcatcoffee:

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 20:20:06 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc Don’t misrepresent me. I don’t directly oppose the current course of actions, but…it has not significantly changed the situation since a thousand days ago.

     It’s scary to see how many “liberals” are so totalitarian that simply expressing a desire not to *prolong* the war is met with petty insults, death threats, and attempts to silence all dissent.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 20:20:06 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc I agree with the desire to not prolong the war.

     I simply disagree that making the war end on Russian terms (which stopping to arm Ukraine would cause) is a way to actually stop it.

     We literally tried that exact strategy in that exact place in 2014. And now here we are.

   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 20:21:13 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc Twenty years ago, it was conservatives and the Iraq War. I’ve always assumed it was an inherent trait of conservatism to be a bloodthirsty warmonger. Now, it turns out liberals are no different.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 20:21:13 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc it's nice to have this simple, clean division of people into "conservatives" and "liberals". I happen not to identify with either though. Not sure why you keep throwing these terms around.

   • Embed this notice
     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: (neonpurplestar@outerheaven.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 20:27:15 JST NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc i think it's really telling that the number one priority tankies have, is to antagonise whatever the interpret as "the liberals"
     
     not trump supporters and trump himself who has vowed to kill all palenstinians and build trump hotels in gaza, but instead persistently "the liberals"
     
     a "liberal" in the united states is also bernie sanders who was the most outspoken senator against weapons deliveries to israel, or for instance AOC who was also outspoken
   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:44:26 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc I don’t want to end the war on Russian terms either. But I also don’t want billions of dollars in weapons thrown willy-nilly into Ukraine with no way of knowing where they’ll end up or what kinds of militant groups may end up using them against us in the future.

     That’s what happened during the Soviet-Afghanistan War, and we got 9/11 and the whole War on Terror in return. There has to be a way to stop this without causing blowback. There has to be.

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:44:26 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc

     @enoch_exe_inc well let me know if you come up with one. I would gladly support it.

     Meanwhile, I will continue to support the invaded country against its genocidal invader.

   • Embed this notice
     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: (neonpurplestar@outerheaven.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:49:22 JST NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     @rysiek @enoch_exe_inc
     
     again, this person is not arguing in good faith
     
     his concern is what civilians might be targeted by western arms that are currently delivered to ukraine, meanwhile ukrainians civilians are hit every fucking day by russian weapons, and even an ICBM as of today
   • Embed this notice
     enoch_exe_inc (enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:52:12 JST enoch_exe_inc

     in reply to

     • NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:
     • enoch_exe_inc

     @NeonPurpleStar @enoch_exe_inc @rysiek Bernie Sanders and AOC are Social Democrats, a position I don’t agree with as much as I used to, but it’s one I’ll tolerate because it’s by far the most realistic “better option” the United States can become.

     That said, there aren’t very many of them. In fact, those two are the only ones that come to mind. Does this strike you as a bit of a problem when it comes to affecting change?

   • Embed this notice
     NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi: (neonpurplestar@outerheaven.club)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:52:12 JST NeonPurpleStar :heart_bi:

     in reply to

     • enoch_exe_inc
     @enoch_exe_inc @rysiek i am a social democrat, and if the choice is between the current system and whatever lenin inspired autocratic regime you want, i will take arms and defend the current system
   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:50:45 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • caffeinatedbookdragon

     @caffeinatedbookdragon my first karaoke experience was when I was 14 and at an English language student exchange camp in Edinburgh.

     I remember it being pretty meh (still no fan of karaoke), but for that one Italian girl my age who asked for Zombie.

     The DJ tried to suggest something "easier to sing" (and I don't blame him, there's been a lot of very bad attempts that evening), but she was adamant.

     She rocked it. Absolutely rocked it. It was a thing to behold and I still remember it decades on.

   • Embed this notice
     caffeinatedbookdragon (caffeinatedbookdragon@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:50:53 JST caffeinatedbookdragon

     in reply to
     @rysiek Methinks I'm gonna have "Zombie" on my playlist a good chunk of the day. Feels like a good day for that heavy ass guitar and Dolores O'Riordan's voice belting it all out. (though the acoustic version's pretty good, too)