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   iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:00:36 JST iced depresso
   throwing the poster in the pit for the libertarians are nazis bit
   but the ghost is cute
   
   RE: https://detroitriotcity.com/objects/57619ad6-8e78-4973-85da-c91187a1ad5a
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:04:52 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • histoire
     @histoire corporations and shit be a fuck -- thomas jefferson :comfystoner:
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     histoire (histoire@shota.house)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:04:53 JST histoire

     in reply to
     @icedquinn
     
     Heil rothbard
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     New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:33:14 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to
     @icedquinn Based on mine and other people I know's interactions with them, I am reasonably confident that this individual is a troll.
     iced depresso likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 11:33:43 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo
     @Indigo :ablobcatpeektrash:
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:37:05 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @xianc78 @Indigo traditional american libertarianism doesn't really care about charity, you're just not allowed to have congress steal all the money for isreal
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     New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:37:08 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn Just fire back with one of her quotes about abortion; those manage to piss off both left and right-wingers in equal measure.
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:37:08 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn I honestly don't care. I don't think it's fair to strawman libertarianism with any of her quotes because while she had a lot of influence on libertarianism, the fact of the matter is is that she never called herself a libertarian (in fact she even opposed it) and Libertarianism and Objectivism are ultimately separate ideologies.

     From what I understand, pure-Objectivists don't even believe in private charity because that goes against someone's self-interests while Libertarians are okay with that as long as it's voluntary. To me, it just seems like her view is the embodiment of most strawman arguments against libertarianism: the idea that libertarians are (or want to be) anti-social hermits who are against altruism.

     Personally, I never read any of her works. I've been told that her works are hard to read and understand, and those who have claimed to have read them are just LARPing.

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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 12:37:09 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn I agree that he is a troll, but one time he tried to justify his claim with some Ayn Rand quote about Native Americans.

   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:53:45 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @xianc78 @Indigo well science fiction authors lamented the success of star wars, because it marked the end of sci-fi as a "serious" hobby.
     
     sci-fi gave us sturgeons revelation (that >90% of any field is crap), and had a lot of speculative futurism, but since fantasy slop made it to space that's all its known for now and nobody really remembers sci-fi is about trying to predict what society would be like if some major invention was created
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     New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:53:47 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn I can respect that. I went through a Rand phase a few years back, I stand by The Fountainhead as being a genuinely great book that functions as both a vehicle for Objectivist philosophy and a compelling story on its own. Atlas Shrugged is just too damn bloated though, I got through it, but I understand why a lot of people just can't finish it; you really need to be at least 60% with her in order to get into it, and the fact that her self-insert character is sexually irresistible to every major male character in the book is telling of the sheer size of her ego (which I think she would consider a compliment).
     That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).
     
     That's all semantics though, I agree that Objectivism and Libertarianism should be viewed as parallel, but separate ideologies.
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 13:53:47 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • New World Indigo

     @Indigo @icedquinn
     >Atlas Shrugged is just too damn bloated though, I got through it, but I understand why a lot of people just can't finish it; you really need to be at least 60% with her in order to get into it

     That's such a shame, otherwise I would recommend it, not to convert people necessarily, but to debunk some other shitty claim: that the science fiction genre is and has always been about Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism.

     >That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).

     Of course most businesses would only ever donate out of their own self-interest, but when it comes to individuals I don't think donating to something that won't benefit you is immoral. Ultimately, people do selfless acts because it makes them feel good, so there really is no such thing as doing something against your self-interest. Though I do understand the dangers of being too altruistic where people take advantage of you. I know that from experience.

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     New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 14:06:52 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn I agree, I was always more into the Rothbard school than the Rand at my core, although I think there's value in ideas taken from both.
     I think there's value that can be taken from Communist, Anarchist, and even Fascist authors to an extent. You just need to make sure you don't let your ideology become too singular, and retain the critical thinking to parse the good from the bad.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 14:06:52 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @Indigo @xianc78 i don't think i've ever knowingly read a 'fascist' philosophy book. i don't think they even call themselves that.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 14:09:53 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @Indigo @xianc78 i think to some extent the deontological thinkers are screwed regardless of affiliation though. consequentialism has spread far and wide, assuming it wasn't always how everyone behaved. perhaps it IS how normies behave since biological stimulus doesn't itself care how the pleasure center gets triggered.
     
     deontologists are worried about things like not approving laws just to go after someone you don't like, because it degrades social and moral fabric. consequentialists only care about needing an excuse to get rid of someone they don't like. similar to the problems of socialism vs capitalism; you can suffer in the hopes somethig might get better or get rich selling everyone down the river. surprising nobody, almost everyone picks #2
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 14:14:58 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • New World Indigo
     @Indigo @xianc78 the funny part is the original fasces icon and word from rome basically means community. the sticks are the citizens 'banded together.'
     
     just don't point out communism and fascism are the same thing in a trench coat. they get extremely upset about that.
     
     (the actual out is libertarian socialism but like nobody remembers that exists as an option)
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     New World Indigo (indigo@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 14:14:59 JST New World Indigo

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @icedquinn @xianc78 I thought this one was pretty interesting:
     https://www.amazon.com/Mussolinis-Intellectuals-Fascist-Political-Thought/dp/0691127905
     
     I was also low-key obsessed with Rotha Lintorn-Orman for a while, although even though she called herself one, whether she really counts as a Fascist or not is up for debate.