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1. Embed this notice
   mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:06:04 JST mekka okereke :verified:

   The thing I love about this post and all its replies, is the stark difference in replies in answer to Brent's very reasonable question.

   Some folks:
   * It's the starter packs / easier onboarding!

   Other folks:
   [I'll let you read those replies]

   https://mastodon.online/@BrentToderian/113478939656417633

   If you think it's the starter packs / easier onboarding, then that leads you to want easier onboarding for Mastodon👍🏿

   If you think it's a character flaw or moral failing in people that choose BlueSky, that leads to doing nothing🤷🏿♂️

   • Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:25:57 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     I love BlueSky, mainly because it's now our best bet at Twitter not being as influential in the US midterm elections (that are coming up sooner than we think).

     I like to brag and boast when I am right about a call, so it's only fair to admit when I'm wrong: I really thought Mastodon would get it together on the onboarding and trust and safety front.

     In fairness, Mastodon is getting it together... but just far too slowly to matter. A slow "yes" is often the same outcome as a "no."🤷🏿♂️

   • Embed this notice
     Silver Huskey (silver_huskey@fandom.ink)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:28:44 JST Silver Huskey

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I'm seeing more and more conversations here replace the evils of Twitter with the evils of Bluesky and I'm just... I don't know. Didn't people here want everyone off Twitter because it's run by a Nazi? Does it really matter if they come here, go there, or run between both?

     Didn't people bitch about the last huge migration from Twitter?

     As much as I love Mastodon and the Fediverse, folks can become really insufferable at times. It's then that I just start to tune them out.

   • Embed this notice
     Kathleen Jones (kathyjones@mastodon.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:44:01 JST Kathleen Jones

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I've permanently deleted my Twitter account. And, like most creatives I know, gone to Bluesky. Can't support anyone who pays people to vote for his mate. Bsky is easier to use than M, but I'm getting more international news here.

   • Embed this notice
     Emelia 👸🏻 (thisismissem@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:45:42 JST Emelia 👸🏻

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke yeah, we're constantly fighting the fact that a lot of the trust & safety aspects in both Mastodon and ActivityPub in general were left languishing for so long.

     Hopefully the new ActivityPub Trust & Safety Taskforce can make some forward improvements here through reports & recommendations.

     Though funding for work is definitely also a factor here, it's obviously possible to do more faster with a budget of $30+ Million vs $600k/year

   • Embed this notice
     Advanced Persistent Teapot (http_error_418@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:55:06 JST Advanced Persistent Teapot

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke the "character flaw" people is the same underlying impulse as people who won't vote for cancelling student debt because "I had to deal with it, so why should you have it easier"

   • Embed this notice
     AJ Sadauskas (ajsadauskas@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:00:18 JST AJ Sadauskas

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Sadly, I get the impression that the window of opportunity for Mastodon to be the great Twitter replacement might have closed.

     It's just so quiet in here right now, especially compared with BlueSky.

     That might change over time?

     I think what a lot of people wanted was just a better moderated Twitter. And that's something Mastodon ultimately failed to deliver, particularly with the default apps.

     I think perhaps it's time to focus on Mastodon better at being its own thing. A place for slower, more thoughtful, longer form conversations.

     And to keep chipping away at the moderation and other issues that have held it back.

     I certainly think there's merit in better federation between the Fedi and BlueSky.

     But these are just a few disjointed thoughts...

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Anders Norén (violanders@mastodon.nu)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:00:41 JST Anders Norén

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke There is also all these conservative people who think that the present state of Mastodon is a feature and that any changes will lead to deterioration (a.k.a. more users).

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:01:35 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Anders Norén

     @violanders

     Yeah, the "Our neighborhood is changing too fast!" crowd.

   • Embed this notice
     mistergibson (mistergibson@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:16:02 JST mistergibson

     in reply to

     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke I have tried to get lefty media guys and political parties interested in Mastodon -- and they seem to not get it. Wondering what else to do.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     AJ Sadauskas (ajsadauskas@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:16:02 JST AJ Sadauskas

     in reply to

     • mistergibson

     @mistergibson @mekkaokereke There was a whole wave of Australian journalists and prominent #auspol Twitter users who moved to Mastodon when Elon first bought the bird app.

     Some moved back to X, others moved on to Threads and BlueSky.

     Many who tried Masto for a time ended up on BlueSky.

     I think there's a few reasons why that happened.

     The onboarding journey and the default app, especially two years ago but still today, just weren't great.

     There have also been issues with moderation and harassment.

     There's issues, like quotes, that were supported by other Fedi apps but not Mastodon.

     With credit to the Mastodon developers, some of those issues have been fixed, just nig nearly fast enough.

     I definitely think there's value in Mastodon and the Fediverse more broadly.

     But I'm now a lot less sure that role will be "the new Twitter".

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Konstantin Weddige (weddige@gruene.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 22:40:48 JST Konstantin Weddige

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke it's definitely the starter packs; what made my experience here on Mastodon great from the start was that I imported lists of dozens of accounts of people I didn't know, but who were posting about topics that I was interested in.

     I figured I'll get to know them eventually and can always unfollow. I effectively built my own starter pack and it was a blaze.

     Mastodon started to be fun, as soon as I followed about 300 people and most new users never get to that.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 23:48:59 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • David Ham

     @davidham

     Pretty much the full list is just those 2 things:

     1) Trust and Safety
     2) Better onboarding for new users

     🤷🏿♂️

     I mean, I can get more detailed than that, but everything really maps to those 2. The only 3rd category would be:

     3) Reduce costs for running an instance / increase non-VC, non-Ads, non-domation ways of getting paid for running / moderating an instance

     If it's too expensive to run an instance, that tends to encourage mega instances. It also silences some important voices.

   • Embed this notice
     David Ham (davidham@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 23:49:00 JST David Ham

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke you had a series of posts awhile back about features that Masto should add to increase its safety, several around the idea of syndicated block-lists I think? What else do you think would help Mastodon? I need to look into Bsky more but it still seems vulnerable to billionaire takeover.

   • Embed this notice
     Brian Grinter (bgrinter@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:50:58 JST Brian Grinter

     in reply to

     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke
     The instance I’m on had to add capacity recently for an influx post US election . It’s not a million in a week but steady growth that’s hopefully sustainable for them

   • Embed this notice
     mistergibson (mistergibson@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:55:13 JST mistergibson

     in reply to

     • Sharon Machlis
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @smach @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke I fully support experimentation regarding the Fedi. Time to bust out the code editor?

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sharon Machlis (smach@masto.machlis.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:55:13 JST Sharon Machlis

     in reply to

     • mistergibson
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mistergibson @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke I created my own searchable, sortable table of work-topic-related posts, including likes and boosts, back when I was still working to easily see which of mine were most popular. It's still running 😃

     https://www.machlis.com/mastodon.php

     Didn't bother trying to track traffic to my articles here, I knew adding tracking code or using short links would bug people.

   • Embed this notice
     Sharon Machlis (smach@masto.machlis.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:55:21 JST Sharon Machlis

     in reply to

     • mistergibson
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke @mistergibson It's blasphemy here to want to track how much traffic gets driven back to your website from social media posts. You're also not supposed to care about likes and boosts. But most people who write for a living or represent the public want some idea whether what they're posting is resonating.
     I came here because the R community did, and I like it! But I still need other platforms for other topics & likely always will

   • Embed this notice
     Sharon Machlis (smach@masto.machlis.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:56:06 JST Sharon Machlis

     in reply to

     • Anders Norén

     @violanders @mekkaokereke I posted about the bridge between Bluesky and Mastodon both here & there. Some enthusiastic response here *but* also the “don't post that stuff here” guy. No negative response there.
     It doesn’t seem fair to blame “Mastodon” for one user - except that kind of thing seems to happen a lot. And it gets tiring. It's nice not to have to worry about the “I'm a long-time user and you should all do things the way I say” crowd.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:57:58 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • ●

     @fembot

     I'm not sure, but probably?

   • Embed this notice
     ● (fembot@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 05:57:59 JST ●

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Does Bsky still scrape text and images from posts for AI and LLMs? And does that still apply to crossposts from Masto/Fedi?

   • Embed this notice
     Stu (tehstu@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 06:20:48 JST Stu

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I didn't realize you were there, that makes me reconsider. I'm having the strangest FOMO about it, although ironically deleted the invite from the initial rollout.

     I honestly don't know if a big, central place to organize is the way to go (with one eye on the wheels eventually falling off), or stick the course with proper decentralization. It's disheartening to see how some recent PRs were treated by the Mastodon core team. Starting to believe the "yes, slowly" = "no".

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 06:24:15 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

     @Acronymesis

     Of course it's a valid concern in general, but it has nothing to do with the topic I'm talking about.

     As in, we know that if given a choice between better onboarding and worse onboarding, users choose the social platform with better onboarding. That also leads to better retention.

     Instead of lamenting why users choose other options, why don't we build better onboarding here?

   • Embed this notice
     LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨 (acronymesis@mastodon.world)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 06:24:16 JST LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke

     I'll admit I was one of the ones who said "let them eat (Bluesky flavored) cake!" as I've personally been okay over here so far on Mastodon (though this trust and safety thing is something I'd like to learn more about).

     The thing is, I've lived through AOL, Myspace, Facebook, and Reddit (Twitter just wasn't for me) and I can't help but notice this pattern of social media owned by billionaires and enshittification/disinfo coming it to ruin them. Is that not a valid concern?

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 06:49:32 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

     @Acronymesis

     Asked another way...

     What do you think the Inkscape team would do if they saw on forum posts that most new users were confused about how to get started due to a poorly designed UX? And that there were literally user self-help support groups explaining that confusing part of the UI, and encouraging each other to stick it out? And that the whole meme of Inkscape was that the 1st month is dangerous, boring, and not useful?

     I promise you, they wouldn't complain about VC funding.🤷🏿♂️

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 07:27:02 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Frank’s Ting
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @franksting @ajsadauskas

     BlueSky has broken social media assumptions in a key way that is impossible to ignore. The typical 90% lurkers, 9% commenters, 1% posters isn't holding over there. There's a much higher ratio of posters and people interacting. Their 1% is closer to 30%. That's astronomical.

     In that way, it's not a Twitter replacement. It's something different. I won't say "new," because those engagement ratios are closer to "old internet," and what I think Mastodon could be one day.

   • Embed this notice
     Frank’s Ting (franksting@theblower.au)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 07:27:06 JST Frank’s Ting

     in reply to

     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke i think the people who are only leaving twitter now are after a similar experience. Bluesky isn’t quite the same but it meets their expectations…for now

   • Embed this notice
     AJ Sadauskas (ajsadauskas@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 07:28:18 JST AJ Sadauskas

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀

     @MishaVanMollusq @mekkaokereke Do you mean me personally?

     If that was my big concern, I would have been on X or Instagram these past 2+ years instead of here.

     It's more that I'm disappointed that many people who I respect, some of whom were regular Mastodon users for a very long time, have recently stopped posting here.

     They're now on BlueSky.

     There was a real opportunity with Twitter imploding for the Fediverse to fill that void.

     That means decentralised, open source, non-commercial social media based on open standards could have been the standard.

     That window of opportunity is now nearly closed.

     And honestly, I feel disappointed that's the case.

     I think there is an opportunity for Mastodon to be the place for slower, more thoughtful, longer form conversations with a stronger community.

     And maybe that's what Mastodon was better suited to all along?

   • Embed this notice
     Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀ (mishavanmollusq@sfba.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 07:28:19 JST Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀

     in reply to

     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @mekkaokereke you aren’t here for Community, are you?
     You are looking for Information over flow and a dopamine fix of Algorithmic Validation thru forced engagement by Twitter Aunties.
     Datavore! Infomaniac! Never satisfied. Consume and be consume.
     You are the customer.
     You are the product .

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨 (acronymesis@mastodon.world)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 07:28:54 JST LibTarg’s 5-Alarm Fire 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Honestly, my perspective was a selfish desire to be part of something "before it was cool" if you know what I mean. However, I very seriously feel a huge problem w/social media is how disinfo is spread on it. If my concern with Bsky is a higher probability of profit thru disinfo there, then I should also be more concerned that people aren't coming here instead. I should want it to be safe and to be desired place to be so history doesn't repeat.

     Thank you for your insight!

   • Embed this notice
     Dana Fried (tess@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 08:28:48 JST Dana Fried

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke this is exactly the takeaway - if you want people to use fedi they're not going to do it out of some kind of personal virtue or moral obligation; they're going to do it because it brings them value in their lives.

     We now have a really informative A/B test of what features people want in a social media platform. We should look at the results and prioritize making changes based on what we've learned.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 08:40:34 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq

     This is a super fair question! I don't think it's true that "All options are bad." But it's an equally fair question for Mastodon. How are we gonna pay for Mastodon stuff?

     The core Mastodon team is underfunded. People working on Trust & Safety features are underfunded. Moderators are underfunded. Admining an instance is too expensive. Etc.

     Some money comes with strings, but some strings are really chains.

     We need other ways to pay for stuff.

   • Embed this notice
     Scott Starkey (scottstarkey@hoosier.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 08:40:39 JST Scott Starkey

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq @mekkaokereke

     I will suppose in a few months Bsky's VC money will run out. How will they fund the servers then? Sell user info? Ask for donations? Show ads? Sell the whole platform to Google?

     The possibilities are endless, but all options are bad for the users. It will drive some more users here.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 08:44:31 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq

     BlueSky has said that their plan is to charge a subscription price for premium features. I think the math does work out for them. We'll see if they can execute, but so far, they've been pretty good at both execution and not bloating their operational costs (assumptions based on team size and infra).

     They may still have a blind spot with race, but it's relatively less than most other options at the moment. And they're hiring Trust and Safety folks.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:03:48 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @fancysandwiches @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq

     This is going to sound a little like Eugen apologia, but it's how I feel. 🤷🏿♂️

     Mastodon *is* changing. Eugen makes different decisions now than in 2019, and different decisions in 2019 than 2017. It is changing!

     But... the challenge is that the *rate of change* is much slower than *I* would like.

     That doesn't necessarily mean that I should get what I want! Especially when there are other options (BlueSky, other Fediverse, etc).

   • Embed this notice
     Fancy Sandwiches (fancysandwiches@urbanists.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:03:49 JST Fancy Sandwiches

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mekkaokereke @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq Mastodon isn't just underfunded though. It's also helmed by a person who is resistant to changes from anyone outside, and actively pushes back against changes that would benefit everyone. If you gave Mastodon a pile of cash today you still wouldn't see a lot of progress.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:15:29 JST myrmepropagandist

     in reply to

     • Bronwyn Harris

     @Bronwyn @mekkaokereke

     Yes. I will cheerfully support efforts to improve this in whatever ways that I can. For now that's supporting a few servers, and Mastodon itself.

     But, I do not have confidence that there is a project that really gets it. And there are still a lot of people who seem to actively want to keep things as they are because IDK it's... nerdy and exclusive or something?

   • Embed this notice
     Bronwyn Harris (bronwyn@sfba.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:15:30 JST Bronwyn Harris

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I had a hell of a time learning how to just sign up for mastodon, let alone use it. I have a ton of friends who gave up. They aren’t dumb; it was just really counterintuitive

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Xeno Danger Evil (xenodangerevil@dpw.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:22:52 JST Xeno Danger Evil

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke bluesy is at the front end of enshittification. Dorset and the other owners do not care one iota.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:22:52 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Xeno Danger Evil

     @XenoDangerEvil

     Cool cool. Got it.

     Now say something about improving the on-boarding experience on Mastodon.

   • Embed this notice
     AJ Sadauskas (ajsadauskas@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:24:02 JST AJ Sadauskas

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey

     @fancysandwiches @mekkaokereke @ScottStarkey @MishaVanMollusq In an ideal world, Mastodon (and other Fedi apps) would be developed by a member-owned nonprofit with a democratically elected board.

     You want to attend the AGM? You want a vote on how Mastodon is run?

     Okay, that's, say, $5 per month.

     Instance-level memberships and memberships from other Fedi projects cost more.

     Second, the nonprofit has a commercial arm that offers managed instance hosting, and support.

     The nonprofit would also raise funds through a grants, gifts-in-wills, events, regular donations over $5 per month, and large donations from major donors.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:24:52 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @ajsadauskas @fancysandwiches @ScottStarkey @MishaVanMollusq

     It's like you're reading the Nivenly charter!

   • Embed this notice
     Scott Starkey (scottstarkey@hoosier.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:26:56 JST Scott Starkey

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mekkaokereke @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq

     Agreed.

     Right now we've got Patreon and other donation platforms. I give a little to their Patreon every month because it's important. I give to my local instances that accept donations.

     Other methods of funding that don't have chains: Possibly there are grants for the public digital good? Maybe we can have a funding event or telethon?

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:31:19 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Xeno Danger Evil

     @XenoDangerEvil

     Fair!

     Y'all thought I was kidding...
     https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/113478418625809509

   • Embed this notice
     Xeno Danger Evil (xenodangerevil@dpw.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:31:20 JST Xeno Danger Evil

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke no

   • Embed this notice
     Urzl (gooba42@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 09:41:13 JST Urzl

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I think the distinction between BlueSky as an org set up to suffer the same enshittification arc as Twitter and BlueSky as a platform and a suite of features really needs to be thought about for the next big thing.

     The BlueSky platform does some things right that others should learn from. I was looking over the ActivityPub docs today to try to distinguish whether the moderation stuff we want is even doable here.

   • Embed this notice
     Xeno Danger Evil (xenodangerevil@dpw.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 10:16:41 JST Xeno Danger Evil

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke yeah, no offense meant. I just don't have to ask how high when you say jump. I don't like bluesy, but it's fully ok for you to like it. I don't mind when people use it. But judging by the ownership.... I think it will become terrible soon. I could be wrong.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 10:16:41 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Xeno Danger Evil

     @XenoDangerEvil

     ♥️

     I 100% respect the simple "no" when asked to do something by some dude on the internet, even when that dude is me!

     The simple "no" is one of my go-tos! Recommend!

     My only point is that this isn't really about BlueSky. It's about why is there such resistance to building better on-boarding and safety tools on Mastodon?

     Many of the users happy on BlueSky now, tried Mastodon first! Or they tried both at the same time. But they left because those features aren't here. Yet...

   • Embed this notice
     📄 Mehdi.doc (mehdi_benadel@mastodon.balamb.fr)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 10:28:42 JST 📄 Mehdi.doc

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mekkaokereke @fancysandwiches @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq I'm sorry if it feels harsh, but all the comments on "Mastodon should be different" feels a lot like clientelism.
     Mastodon is OS, people have made different versions of it. It's not even the only microblogging platform in here. We have around 10 of them not counting variants, thousands of instances in US and twice more in Europe.
     People made other UIs. Different groups created moderation tools.
     The choice is there.

   • Embed this notice
     CohenTheBlue (cohentheblue@ohai.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 11:09:48 JST CohenTheBlue

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke What probably makes a big difference is that Bluesky has defaults that work for most people who don't have the time or don't want to change theirs. On mastodon, you'd have to follow a bunch of hashtags and people to have an interesting, varied feed. So I think follow starter packs would be a good thing indeed. Easy couple of clicks to try different flavours.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 12:18:32 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas
     • J Low

     @j_low @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq

     Ro. Jaz. Emily. Renaud. Oliphant. Seirdy. A bunch of people running Hachyderm and other key instances. Every single moderator. Anyone involved with IFTAS, The Bad Space, or any number of other projects.

     That's most of what stands between Fediverse users and online hate and abuse. 🤷🏿♂️

   • Embed this notice
     J Low (j_low@social.bau-ha.us)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 12:18:33 JST J Low

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mekkaokereke @ScottStarkey @ajsadauskas @MishaVanMollusq noob question: who are trust and safety folks in this context?

   • Embed this notice
     crabmusket (crabmusket@aus.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 12:21:30 JST crabmusket

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @mekkaokereke @ajsadauskas @fancysandwiches @ScottStarkey @MishaVanMollusq TIL! This is very cool

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 12:21:30 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀
     • Fancy Sandwiches
     • Scott Starkey
     • crabmusket
     • AJ Sadauskas

     @crabmusket @ajsadauskas @fancysandwiches @ScottStarkey @MishaVanMollusq

     The biggest difference is $7 a month vs $5 a month in the hypothetical.

     https://nivenly.org/governance/

     Inflation! 😂

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 14:36:44 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • nickapos :clubtwit:

     @nickapos

     I'm explicitly calling this out as an excuse that I will not accept.

     As an example, I'm saying that the obstacles to making something like starter packs work on Mastodon is not hundreds of millions of dollars.

     As another example, I said that BlueSky is winning against Twitter, who has 2 orders of magnitude more resources than them. Because it's not about resources as much as it as about "listen to your own users."

     Many of those BlueSky users tried Mastodon first. 🤷🏿♂️

   • Embed this notice
     nickapos :clubtwit: (nickapos@twit.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 14:36:46 JST nickapos :clubtwit:

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I think we need to take into account the resources available to BlueSky and the resources available to mastodon. Mastodon will always be slow to evolve and because its controllers have certain convictions it will take extra time to persuade them to move to a different direction. But eventually they will get there. BlueSky may be ok today, but we have seen this play out in the past, when VC people are calling the shots we all know what happens in the end.

   • Embed this notice
     nickapos :clubtwit: (nickapos@twit.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 14:50:16 JST nickapos :clubtwit:

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke you may have noticed that there are people submitting patches to mastodon that are not accepted for months or ever for no technical reason apart from the lead Eugen not liking the person who submitted them.
     This is what I meant by the phrase certain convictions. What you think should happen and what many other people think should happen will not happen until Eugen is convinced. I believe as has happened in the past he will eventually see that this is the way forward.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 03:42:15 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • ●

     @fembot

     Update: Apparently not.

     Short thread from BlueSky on "AI for moderation" vs "AI for Generative AI"

     https://bsky.app/profile/bsky.app/post/3layuzbti6s2x

   • Embed this notice
     ● (fembot@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 03:42:16 JST ●

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Thanks, I hadn't heard mention of it lately. As a creative, it's put the urch on my posting my own work here again until I can find a way past that. I've heard the #NoBot tag isn't effective outside of Masto 🤷♀️

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 09:46:45 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • nickapos :clubtwit:
     • John Cutting

     @nickapos @jcutting

     Black users on Mastodon have been asking for years for the features that are driving BlueSky's recent success. These features don't cost millions to build.

     When I started focusing on on-boarding, lots of my friends on Mastodon said, "We've been asking for these things for years! They won't do it. They won't accept patches if you do it. They don't want it."

     https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/112906563677820632

     https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/110676311935295522

     As I've said elsewhere, they do want it!👍🏿

     Progress is just slow.

   • Embed this notice
     John Cutting (jcutting@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 09:46:47 JST John Cutting

     in reply to

     • nickapos :clubtwit:

     @nickapos @mekkaokereke mastodon had all the advantages and head starts in the world and lost (not losing, lost) to bluesky because of this resistance to feedback of what users want. Bluesky has a lot of smart design decisions that have really helped the communities there thrive. Onboarding is one thing; seeing positive growth ensures staying power. I like mastodon but enjoy bluesky.

   • Embed this notice
     nickapos :clubtwit: (nickapos@twit.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 09:46:47 JST nickapos :clubtwit:

     in reply to

     • John Cutting

     @jcutting @mekkaokereke I am not sure this is correct, mastodon was Eugen’s pet project and BlueSky was an offshoot of twitter funded by Dorsey with millions from the beginning. How exactly did mastodon have a head start. I do agree BlueSky gets a lot of things right and I do agree that many people are frustrated with mastodon but ultimately it is an open source project with the good and bad that comes from it. This is like comparing gimp with photoshop.

   • Embed this notice
     nickapos :clubtwit: (nickapos@twit.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 09:46:49 JST nickapos :clubtwit:

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I think if you take into account the lack of resources and this particular gatekeeping you will be able to understand why things move so slowly.
     Generally I agree with your comments.

   • Embed this notice
     Brian David (bcdavid@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 18-Nov-2024 06:49:49 JST Brian David

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke I think one part of it is that getting something right in a way that lasts does take an incredibly long time. Time which we may legitimately not have. The other part is what you said: getting people out of Twitter is in itself a crucially important goal.

     So while BS isn't for me, I'm fine with it. And if Mastodon keeps improving and keeps the embers burning, then it will still be there if BS burns out (which I think BS will based on just the complete lack of a monetization plan).

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sharon Machlis (smach@masto.machlis.com)'s status on Monday, 18-Nov-2024 07:44:31 JST Sharon Machlis

     in reply to

     • Brian David

     @bcdavid @mekkaokereke I've already seen a couple of posts on Bluesky saying there should be a way now for people to give money to the project. How often do you see that in a for-profit project?

     The monetization plan is some kind of premium membership. What if 10% of a future 30 million user base is willing to pay $100/yr for a membership - same price as individual Github Copilot? That's a $300 million/yr business.