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idk man. I know you're all going to tell me "no shit" but after looking into it for a few days, the miasma around the language is pretty damn bad. There's the obvious issue of everyone in the community being beyond insufferable, but even looking beyond that, there does seem to be a very strong webshit culture around everyone writing it.
Its strongest proponents don't seem to give a shit about what the language actually offers (safe references) and instead just dodge around it by doing copy by value on everything, including massive lists to the point that the programs they write are CRAWLING on one of the most powerful CPUs in the world.
It's very likely that they don't even understand pass by value vs reference or the titanic performance implications that it has. Most of them probably worked exclusively in JavaScript where pass by copy is not even possible.
They're churning out machine code that runs slower than Python.
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@deprecated_ii @RustyCrab there are more than enough opportunities to fuck up even after you catch bugs with static analysis
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@deprecated_ii maybe nobody is hiring rust programmers because they're all bad
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@RustyCrab I really don't think it attracts the kind of people who are likely to become good in general. my impression is also that the community is dominated by inexperienced dabblers
fucking up is an important part of growing and learning as an engineer and people who are afraid of fucking up are probably not going to grow. of course you don't want your fuckups to be extremely costly in an objective sense but the occasional gut punches of realizing you did something retarded, on a personal level, are a requirement
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@RustyCrab the only reason it has mind share at all is because the evangelists are so obnoxious and persistent
which doesn't make that a good thing of course
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@deprecated_ii I think Real Programmers ™️ could make good use out of it but if you throw Real Programmers ™️ into this cesspool and force them to work along side the riffraff, all the efficiency in the world will be readily defeated by Pajeet Shitstreet and Lilith Thighhigh writing vector dot copy() for every trivial operation on a 4 megabyte data block.
That's literary exactly what I'm seeing by the way. I was trying to diagnose why a rather trivial piece of code was causing literal multiple minutes of latency and I discovered that it was trivial json parsing code that was passing in (giant fucking list).copy() into every single "find child element" call. I have never in my life seen such a thing happen in the C++ world.
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@deprecated_ii @RustyCrab not defending rust because I haven't used it but I guess it also has strong typing and pattern matching which is pretty cool. however I looked at example code and it's so noisy jesus
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@sun @RustyCrab yes, but do larval rustaceans know that? it does not seem so, in my experience
that's also why I don't care very much about what rust offers. memory safety is just a small slice of the general "software engineering" problem
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@deprecated_ii it also didn't occur to me that webshits would see no problem with their software taking multiple seconds to process a 100kb file because that's what they're used to in the web world
:niggasuicide:
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@deprecated_ii fucking up is an important part but I think C++ has a faster feedback loop. The penalty is your program not working at all. In rust the penalty is your program running like shit on an in a i9000-TrillionHXXX and you get to say "just get faster hardware bro"
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@RustyCrab HUMANS CAN'T EVEN NOTICE 200 MILLISECOND LATENCY
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My rednet pcie can do 3ms round trip with a 32 sample audio buffer. You need 3ms to 7ms to play live.
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@Humpleupagus @RustyCrab this is something I've heard many times from web people. I suppose it comes from "human reaction time is 200 ms" as if the human brain can't operate on a time step smaller than that
if I'm watching a movie or something with slightly out of sync audio it's really obvious to me. physical input delays like typing are even more noticeable
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With audio, assuming you have an original signal at 0ms, you'll hear reverb if there's a second nearly identical signal from about 10ms to 40ms. Around 40ms is where you start heating an echo.
For key presses, a piano takes between 5ms to 7ms from press, to hammer strike, to the ear.
Other percussion instruments, like guitar or drums are way more immediate.
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I think the point here is that at least as to audio / music, a 200ms reaction time would make live playing, especially improv, an impossibility. But maybe humans have faster reaction time to audio cues than visual ones?
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@Humpleupagus @RustyCrab reaction time business is totally misleading because it's based on reacting to something you can't predict. the classic thing people do in school is having someone else drop a ruler through your fingers, and you're supposed to clamp on to it, and how far it fell shows how long it took for you to react
but the brain is exceptionally good at predicting timing if it can anticipate when something is going to happen. pressing a piano key may have some latency because of the mechanical components, but the brain simply presses the key slightly earlier to get the sound to happen at the right time
even if you switched to a different piano with significantly more latency, as a skilled player you'd be able to adjust very quickly and play well
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@Humpleupagus @RustyCrab @deprecated_ii at least when matching up visual cues to auditory ones the timestep seems to be around 15-20ms with some wiggle room depending on specific circumstance (no one is going to notice an extra 20ms delay if the source is half a mile away they're just going to assume it's part of travel time)
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They'll always tell you about how they saw the hair pie, but they'll never tell you how long it took them to see it. 😏
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@Sweetie_Squad_Liquidator @RustyCrab @binkle @Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii
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@Chzikken_1486 @RustyCrab @binkle @Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii
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@binkle @Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii look I'm not one of those "software efficiency is it's own reward" types but yes I am that was a lie
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@RustyCrab @binkle @Humpleupagus @deprecated_ii
Rusty Crab
Pissed Hippo
d
?? Humpleupagus ??
binkle
Chzikken_1486
Sweetie_Squad_Liquidator
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