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   Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:14:35 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

   I said it before and I'll say it again:

   "AI model learns, therefore it is intelligent" is like saying "computer programs run, therefore they have legs."

   Metaphors like "program runs" or "model learns" are useful, but are just that: metaphors.

   Drawing conclusions on their basis is folly.

   Keep that in mind next time AI-hypers try to draw equivalences between a child going to a museum and then making their own art, and a LLM gobbling up terabytes of text and then generating word salad.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:14:34 JST Sick Sun

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     @rysiek
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:29:26 JST Sick Sun

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     • bartholin
     @bartholin @rysiek all art is theft, friend.
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     bartholin (bartholin@fops.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:29:29 JST bartholin

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     • Sick Sun
     @sun @rysiek
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     Del Rio Kun~ (zrdr_delrio@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:31:28 JST Del Rio Kun~

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     • Sick Sun
     @sun @rysiek I think it's best for shitposting and throwing ideas around.
     
     I need to find the "Jason Alexander as George costanza yelling and holding A gun" I did
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     Mitch Conner (olmitch@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:32:19 JST Mitch Conner

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     • bartholin
     • Sick Sun
     Yeah it's adorable when people don't comprehend that we all stand on the shoulders of giants. Muh unique thoughts
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:32:19 JST Sick Sun

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     • bartholin
     • Mitch Conner
     @olmitch @bartholin @rysiek atheists when you draw conclusions from "everything is deterministic" imagine a wojak here
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:35:04 JST Sick Sun

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     • bartholin
     @bartholin @rysiek my position on creating images with AI is that it's just a tool at a higher level of abstraction and how you use it might be unethical. or not.
     
     this is before you get into things like, training your own model on your own art, or the public domain, which is completely ethical.
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     bartholin (bartholin@fops.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:35:06 JST bartholin

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     • Sick Sun
     @sun @rysiek but not all theft is not art
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:39:59 JST Sick Sun

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     • Trash Panda
     @raccoon @rysiek Fair point but consider how many famous artists historically basically did the same stuff just not as automated as AI. If you can think of it someone probably did it in the past, were criticized for it, but still sold it and still kept their reputation as a real artist. I swear I am not trying to death by a thousand papercuts to the "AI is theft" argument but like look at Salvador Dali or Andy Warhol. My "all art is theft" statement is a quote from Picasso btw.
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     Trash Panda (raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:40:01 JST Trash Panda

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     • Sick Sun

     @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social
     I think it's OK if one has their own local and personally trained (yes, I know, metaphor) program they manage to generate nice pictures with.
     Morally speaking, I'm not sure I like the idea of mass producing pictures, text, code or whatever and having people pay for that service rather than supporting people who can do that.

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     juliam (breadguy@kitty.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:42:55 JST juliam

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     • Sick Sun

     @sun@shitposter.world moral panic is awesome when I do it

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:49:11 JST Sick Sun

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     • Trash Panda
     @raccoon @rysiek I think if you are using it personally rather than for profit then it's not unethical either. Similar to how you can go into a museum and redraw paintings to learn but if you sold them you need an agreement with the artist, unless the painting is out of copyright or something.
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     Trash Panda (raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:49:13 JST Trash Panda

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     • Sick Sun

     @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social
     I'm not arguing against the concept that all art is theft or that someone already did something before.
     Hell, if I can draw a trash can it's because I saw some around, right? You can train AI with photographs you take and at that point people can't even bring up the point that the AI was trained with art without consent but personally I morally disagree with that too, unless just used locally like I said before.

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:52:50 JST Sick Sun

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     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Trash Panda
     @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @raccoon @rysiek if you want to know a secret, concepts like "art" fall apart rapidly when you start interrogating them but we all pretend it doesn't because the idea makes us feel good.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     Top of the hop (on Mumble) (emoisdeadandsoami@mastodon.bv.linksjugend-solid.de)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:53:04 JST Top of the hop (on Mumble)

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     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda

     @sun @raccoon @rysiek why not call it automated plagiarism? As in it's basically what it is, as you create a thing that's directly derivative of what you feed it with the difference that it combines thousands works into one. You could state that without any ethical innuendo, it's more descriptive than words like "theft" or "art" and if all parties involved are aware of it you could still do cool and fun stuff with it

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:54:02 JST Sick Sun

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     • Trash Panda
     @raccoon @rysiek my opinion is that things like Dall-E that were trained using a scraper are widely used for unethical purposes. But I am strongly against blanket condemnation of them.
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     Trash Panda (raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:54:04 JST Trash Panda

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     • Sick Sun

     @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social
     Agree. My issue starts with services you pay for the AI to generate pictures for you.
     Another acceptable way to use them is generate pictures to show an artist you want to commission the type of thing you want.

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:55:46 JST Sick Sun

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     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda
     @raccoon @rysiek A couple of my friends have trained an AI on an artist to generate new art in his "style". The artist said they are okay with it as long as the work is not presented as _them_ having made it.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 07:56:02 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda
     @sun @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek a related remark from one of my friends off site
     
     "my hot (?) take is that artistic output is more a product of introjection and bricolage than we'd want to admit. it's 1% inspiration filtered through a lifetime of learning "what should go where" from practice, (sometimes) professional training, and just existing in the world. and creation is a process of smearing together some original spark, what we like from other works and want to incorporate, and what we know should be present into a coherent work."
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:03:41 JST Sick Sun

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     • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:
     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Trash Panda
     @allison @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek After extensively working with LLMs I have decided 1. that AI doesn't "think" or "reason" like a human does, it is a faculty less than that. But also, that the majority of the time, human behavior is not the product of "high reasoning," it's definitely using a mechanism that's very similar to AI. Rysiek probably doesn't agree, but when you sit down and you trace a painting to learn how the artist worked, that's closer (but not entirely!) to what an AI does. It just is. Humans are not actually that special.
     
     Btw I spent a couple university years majoring in art and have illustrated using pencil and ink all my life. And the process by which you absorb influences and reinterpret, synthesize and express your art is very much an unconscious product.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     Trash Panda (raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:03:54 JST Trash Panda

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     • Sick Sun

     @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social
     I think, like with most things, each case is different. I'm still trying to figure out a good way of describing my opinion.
     Anyway. Almost 1 am, this raccoon needs to sleep. Have a wonderful rest of your day moon

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:27:20 JST Sick Sun

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     • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:
     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Trash Panda
     • Posting Hellbound
     @PostingHellbound @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek I sat down and taught myself step by step how you rasterize an image of a dog and feed that into a formula that turns it into something you can run linear regression tests on.
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     Posting Hellbound (postinghellbound@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:27:21 JST Posting Hellbound

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     • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:
     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda
     @sun @allison @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @raccoon @rysiek permitting some exceptions (people who can think from first principles), people don't really have the requisite framing or cognitive "building blocks" to think about ai
     
     they think by analogy, stretch it too far and end up saying retarded shit. the problem with it is that they can only analogize to concepts that is maybe coherent when predicting human behavior (but even then barely has explanatory power), but there isn't really a way around knowing math to explain ai shit
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:34:09 JST Sick Sun

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     • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:
     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Trash Panda
     • Posting Hellbound
     @PostingHellbound @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek Yeah kind of like what you said. I can sit there and go over every step of how it works and it DOES IN FACT work. But I can't tell you why in this universe that you can reduce an image to bunch of points on a graph and mathematically find the line and compare it to a dog line and inside all that noise there is a "dog" quality. That is a deep mystery. But yes, I can tell you every step and replicate it.
     
     (it doesn't always work right. human cognition doesn't either.)
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     Posting Hellbound (postinghellbound@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 08:34:10 JST Posting Hellbound

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     • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:
     • Top of the hop (on Mumble)
     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda
     @sun @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek yeah IMO that's the kind of thing you need to get a good grasp on to be able to reason about it intuitively. you gotta be able and willing to "reduce" cognition to "equations" which probably gives people the ick
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     Nicholas Conrad (nicholas@aklp.club)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 13:43:56 JST Nicholas Conrad

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     • 御園はくい
     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda

     Like, I didn't draw that photograph myself either, tho.

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     Trash Panda (raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 13:43:58 JST Trash Panda

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     • 御園はくい
     • Sick Sun

     @hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social
     "But I had to tell the AI what to do!"
     Yeah when you commission art from a person you have to do that too, you still didn't draw it yourself.

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     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2024 13:43:59 JST 御園はくい

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     • Sick Sun
     • Trash Panda
     @sun @raccoon @rysiek AI art is inevitable but i'll let it slide as long as people don't see themselves as the one creating it
     
     they're the patrons commissioning it from the AI, get it right