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1. Embed this notice
   miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 17:22:01 JST miauz genyau

   here’s an idea: what if there were a laptop with a charging connector on the rear so you could use it on either side of the bed without flexing the charger cable so much it eventually breaks?
   
   and what if it were a barrel connector, not USB-C, because USB-C is not durable enough or even remotely reasonable for this use case?
   
   what if the charger plug also had proper strain relief and used good cables instead of bad ones?

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Sick Sun like this.
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 17:22:03 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     if this sounds like 2004 it’s because that was the standard in 2004

     Polychrome :blabcat: likes this.
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     Polychrome :blabcat: (polychrome@poly.cybre.city)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:17:26 JST Polychrome :blabcat:

     in reply to
     @mia what ever happened to the larger USB Type-C plug anyway? I remember seeing it in photos but now everything's the tiny mobile edition even where it doesn't make sense.
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:20 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel the good news is that at least some few vendors put a barrel jack in addition to USB-C on all laptops above a certain performance class

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Polychrome :blabcat: like this.
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     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:21 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia @Erpel well i guess they like, determined that these days you can not really not use usb-c without tons of people bitching about it so they went the way of least harm while still using it

   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:23 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel see this is kinda funny to me. they noticed an engineering problem, but instead of solving it they’re just making you swap cables

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:24 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia @Erpel the charger that came with mine has removable plugs on both sides and the usb cable is straight on one end and angled on the other so sometimes i use it one way and sometimes the other way as needed

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:25 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 well the funny thing is that even though the jacks have moved to the sides, many laptop vendors ship chargers with 90° angled plugs
     
     they’re angled because if the jack is on the back, it can rotate to whatever side the charger is on
     
     magsafe as patented by apple doesn’t allow for this, so you’d need extra beefy strain relief
     
     there are round magnetic connector designs that do, but unfortunately, as far as i know, all of them would be too chonky if they needed to make and break the connection safely and reliably at DC currents typical for laptop charging/power supply (cc @Erpel?)

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 18:18:26 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia but what about... magsafe but on the back

     funnily this is also pretty much the primary reason i like the swappable bays on my framework, when i inevitably ruin the usb-c due to usb-c's garbage design i can just swap it out for another without the rest being ruined :^) (and extend the lifetime a bit because i can put usb-c on both sides when needed)

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:04:44 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @mia Meanwhile my T495: One side has power plug + ports-farm, one side for fans and one USB-A port, at least the cooling is mostly passive.
     
     And while 180° (or more) hinges are a bit nice sometimes, I'd much prefer power plug at the back.
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:19:21 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • (NekoSock) Miya Ironami

     @iro_miya there’s USB-C, yes, but that is not nearly as durable as a barrel jack, and much harder to fix on most laptops if you can even get the parts with the right footprint. i’ve seen so many broken ports it’s not even funny.

     Polychrome :blabcat: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     (NekoSock) Miya Ironami (iro_miya@mk.absturztau.be)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:19:23 JST (NekoSock) Miya Ironami

     in reply to

     @mia@movsw.0x0.st but this is also solved by the way laptops are currently built

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     (NekoSock) Miya Ironami (iro_miya@mk.absturztau.be)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:19:25 JST (NekoSock) Miya Ironami

     in reply to

     @mia@movsw.0x0.st isn't it fine to have chqrgine ports on both sides, so you can just use whatever side is more convenient?

   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:19:25 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • (NekoSock) Miya Ironami

     @iro_miya in theory yes but a port on the back with a 90° angled connector would solve this

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:55:55 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • q66
     @mia @q66 @Erpel Ports directly soldered on the PCB is a terribly bad idea anyway as you can end up breaking the PCB (specially on bendy plastic laptops).
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:55:56 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel the regular-sized barrel jacks don’t actually need to occupy a much larger footprint than a securely mounted USB-C port does. there are options that save vertical space by being mounted in a cutout in the PCB (“mid-mount”) but also have additional retention so it’s impossible to push/bend/yank them off the board somehow

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:55:57 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia @Erpel having both is pretty good but i like small 13" or below laptops and i imagine there it would complicate the design a bunch, unless you used a tiny barrel jack and those are extremely fragile mfs too

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 19:57:22 JST q66

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan @Erpel @mia with bendy plastic laptops you can do it anyway (remember when uh, was it x260? would break if you grabbed it by the corner too often)

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:12:52 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel i’m not sure whether my laptop has 5521 or 5525 but the connector is still in perfect condition after over 10 years
     
     it’s mostly been treated well but i’ve knocked it around quite a bit, people tripped on the power cord and pulled it off the table, and it’s often under some stress because the charger has an angled connector and it gets pulled to the side a lot
     
     but to be fair, some laptop vendors definitely pick worse parts that aren’t as durable

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:12:53 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia @Erpel 5521 is the most common and is just about barely okay for this kind of purpose

     older thinkpads had these really chunky ones (i think they are nonstandard size though) and these were pretty good, but the laptop-side connector would still inevitably go loose eventually

   • Embed this notice
     miauz genyau (mia@movsw.0x0.st)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:12:54 JST miauz genyau

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel yes those are the most common ones i think?

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:12:55 JST q66

     in reply to

     @mia @Erpel well anything smaller than 5521/5525 (and even there it's bordeline) is way too bendable

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:17:26 JST q66

     in reply to

     • Breizh

     @breizh @Erpel @mia the thing is that in today's world you cannot expect quality because everything is manufactured to keep costs down, so to reduce the harm parts should be designed in a way that allows for error

     it's not reasonable to say "well, the thing should've been made better" when you allow for barely any margin of error

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Breizh (breizh@pleroma.breizh.pm)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:17:28 JST Breizh

     in reply to

     • q66

     @q66 @Erpel @mia I agree, if Apple had opened up its format, things might have been different. But they would have preferred the whole world to pay royalties, as if. And now they have to do what everyone else does, legally (in Europe at least). Double failure.

     As I said, on my PC, USB-C passes 180W. We'll see how it holds up over time, but I'm not particularly worried. I think the problems people have with USB-C are more a question of quality than design... (although I admit it could have been designed better).

   • Embed this notice
     q66 (q66@blahaj.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:17:29 JST q66

     in reply to

     • Breizh

     @breizh @Erpel @mia it still baffles me that anybody's expecting more than like 65W to go through that thing (have you seen the usb-c pinout and internal layout? it's scary, not to mention that the center pad eventually undergoes delamination, can we just stop designing connectors with center pads please... apple had the right idea with lightning, too bad it's apple)

   • Embed this notice
     Breizh (breizh@pleroma.breizh.pm)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2024 20:17:31 JST Breizh

     in reply to

     • q66

     @mia @q66 @Erpel Well, it was because USB-C wasn’t powerful enough to use the laptop at it’s full power.

     But now that you can have up to 240W on it, I guess it will disappear too (here it’s 180W on USB-C).