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   Wuzzy (wuzzy@cyberplace.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 13:40:19 JST Wuzzy

   The company #Meta recently released #Llama 3.1, an #AI model they claim is "open source".

   This is false. Llama 3.1 is NOT open source.

   They released it under a license which under 1.b.iv. demands you agree to an "acceptable use policy" which basically forbids using it in any way they don't like. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/meta-llama/llama-models/main/models/llama3_1/LICENSE

   This is a violation of rule 6 in the Open Source Definition: No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor. https://opensource.org/osd

   #OpenSource #debunk #bullshit

   • clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 18:04:31 JST clacke

     in reply to
     The term "open source" is broken anyway. Corporations constantly try to redefine this term in a way that gives them all the free press while having zero of the responsibilities.

     @Wuzzy No, people call them out on that shit all the time? It's a well-defined term.

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Wuzzy (wuzzy@cyberplace.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 18:04:32 JST Wuzzy

     in reply to

     The term "open source" is broken anyway. Corporations constantly try to redefine this term in a way that gives them all the free press while having zero of the responsibilities.

     To corporations, the official definition of "open source" is "whatever we feel like it". They don't give a single shit about the actual history and values.

     The term "open source" is a lost cause, I prefer the term "free software" which corporations are MUCH more scared to use for some reason. 😉

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 18:04:38 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     (1/?)

     @Wuzzy
     > The term "open source" is broken anyway

     It's a generic term, so there's only so much gatekeeping anyone can do. But the OSI continue to endorse only licenses that also meet the Free Software Definition. Eg they rejected the recent crop of Source Available licenses, for failing to respect the same OSD criteria the Llama license violates, as you point out.

     clacke likes this.
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     🎬🚴 maricn ✊ (maricn@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 21:49:48 JST 🎬🚴 maricn ✊

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @Wuzzy
     do you have a source on this, like what was rejected? bc, iirc GPLv3 is also prohibiting proprietary usage of the code and therefore fails that definition, but is to me much dearer than MIT which is more permissive..

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 21:49:48 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • 🎬🚴 maricn ✊

     @maricn The most important one in recent memory was the SSPL. It was submitted for certification and would have been rejected, but was withdrawn by the applicant when that became clear.

     opensource.org/blog/the-sspl-i…

     @strypey @Wuzzy

     Blurry Moon likes this.
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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:49:04 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • 🎬🚴 maricn ✊

     Outright rejection is rare, the SSPL case is more typical. The process seeks consensus and collaborative improvement, and a license that would be rejected is seldom put up for a vote. I guess you could say it gets rejected by attrition:

     github.com/OpenSourceOrg/licen…

     @strypey @maricn @Wuzzy

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     Dave Lane :flag_tino: 🇳🇿 (lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:49:33 JST Dave Lane :flag_tino: 🇳🇿

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Vint Prox
     • Skivling

     @Skivling @vintprox @strypey @Wuzzy I wrote this to help explain my rationale: https://tech.oeru.org/foss-libresoftware-its-about-clarity-and-values

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Vint Prox (vintprox@techhub.social)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:49:35 JST Vint Prox

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey I agree. If anything, "free software" is more easily misused as a term than "open source". There is already F(L)OSS, for anyone who cares to read a bit - it's very specific and hard to wiggle out of as a corporation.

   • Embed this notice
     Skivling (skivling@mastodon.nz)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:49:35 JST Skivling

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Dave Lane :flag_tino: 🇳🇿
     • Vint Prox

     @vintprox @strypey @Wuzzy I like the idea of calling it free software, but because of the confusion with free as in price, I use libre software as the term instead. I think @lightweight does as well.
     F(L)OSS is also good, I use it about the same amount as libre software.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:49:37 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     (2/?)

     @Wuzzy
     > I prefer the term "free software" which corporations are MUCH more scared to use

     Not at all, they just use it to refer to price, not freedom. Which is why a new term was sought in the first place.
     
     The vast majority of people who call it Free Software learned about that term through Open Source. Exactly as the people who coined the term intended;

     https://opensource.com/article/18/2/coining-term-open-source-software

     As much as possible I talk about "software freedom" and describe software respecting it as "Free Code".

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:16 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     @strypey
     
     http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:16 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     "In times past the kafkatrapper was usually a religious zealot; today, he or she is just as likely to be advancing an ideology of racial, gender, sexual-minority, or economic grievance. Whatever your opinion of any of these causes in their ‘pure’ forms may be, there are reasons that the employment of kafkatrapping is a sure sign of corruption."

     #ESR, 2010

     http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122

     Remarkably similar to what Frances Lee says here;

     http://www.catalystwedco.com/blog/2017/7/10/kin-aesthetics-excommunicate-me-from-the-church-of-social-justice

     Bipartisan consensus?

     @toiletpaper

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:20 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     @strypey
     
     This is why I brought up ESR's essay about "kafkatrapping". Kafka made some very poignant metaphors about this kind of thing in his writing, and I applaud ESR for referencing Kafka in this context, because it's extremely apropos. I've seen this sort of thing first hand more than once through personal association within the mileu of left-wing activism. It's not a good reflection on their politics to put it mildly, and a large part of why I vociferously push back against it even while I often agree with the underlying complaints at the root of the debate. Violently pathological narcissistic hypocrisy is not a good way to address our societal issues.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:20 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     @toiletpaper
     > This is why I brought up ESR's essay about "kafkatrapping"

     Maybe you posted the wrong link? The page I got was about the The Halloween Documents and didn't mention that. Or is it in one of the linked documents? If so, which one?

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:22 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     (2/3)

     Let's imagine due process found these community leaders guilty of the accusations against them. That would still *not* be a sane reason to avoid reading or linking to their writing on software freedom.

     When I see a total lack of due process (in most cases), and people pushing this guilty-by-association against their writings (ie ThoughtCrime), it makes me *very* sceptical about the accusations. Even before digging into them and finding a tissue of lies, eg;

     https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:25 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     (1/3)

     @toiletpaper
     > Part of that process in recent years has been injecting idpol into the mix in order to take out the central figures like ESR and RMS

     Not quite. Wherever there's enough humans working together for long enough, ideological disagreements will naturally become part of community management. But yes, there's certainly been weaponisation of ideological divides to attack anti-corporate people whose analyses are influential in the movement.

     @Wuzzy

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:26 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     @strypey @Wuzzy
     
     For some historical context on how the "open source" and "free software" movements have been infiltrated and coopted over the course of decades... Part of that process in recent years has been injecting idpol into the mix in order to take out the central figures like ESR and RMS who prevent this process from taking place.
     
     http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 21:55:53 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     @strypey
     
     I really liked that yesmagazine article. It resonates quite a bit. FYI, the link to the catalystwedco blog page is defunct, but IA has your back.
     
     https://web.archive.org/web/20211205134759/http://www.catalystwedco.com/culture/excommunicate-me-from-the-church-of-social-justice
     
     One of the silver linings in all this stuff is that there are a lot of people among so-called "marginalised groups" who've noticed and pushed back against the pathological narcissism in the left-wing activist community. I personally can't claim membership of a victim group other than on the basis of being Pagan (it's own can of worms), so it's heartening to see that this level of integrity isn't limited to any particular minority identity demographic. I think in some ways it's easier for minority folks to openly push back against these issues because it's harder for their antagonists to reject their opinions and lived experience and then eject them solely on the basis of their identity. Having a diversity of allies within and without gives a stronger sense of solidarity and freedom to speak truth to power, even while that power is being exercised by those claiming to be essentially powerless.
     
     On a personal note, since you're following my account, you'll probably notice I poke fun at subjects which are rather taboo, and occasionally repost memes and articles that don't quite fit the mould of social justice per the party line. Chalk it up to my dark sense of humour, and willingness to experiment with ideas and lingo that are rather irreverent, even of my own sincerely held views. I think this extremism and "victim Olympics" style politics deserves more than a bit of derision from time to time. Fedi is a place I allow myself the freedom and latitude to say things I probably wouldn't if I was speaking to someone face to face offline. If in doubt, just ask and I'll be happy to clarify what I really feel/intend.
   • Embed this notice
     Vint Prox (vintprox@techhub.social)'s status on Thursday, 01-Aug-2024 01:49:08 JST Vint Prox

     in reply to

     • clacke

     @clacke @Wuzzy 👍 Never forget OSI.

     clacke likes this.
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     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Thursday, 01-Aug-2024 01:49:14 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @Wuzzy not to mention: there is no source code available anywhere, as far as I can see:
     https://github.com/meta-llama/llama-models/tree/main/models/llama3_1

     There is nothing "open source" about this.

     clacke likes this.