mcc
$ python3 -m pdm install
/usr/bin/python3: No module named pdm
$ pipx install pdm
'pdm' already seems to be installed. Not modifying existing installation in
'/home/mcc/.local/pipx/venvs/pdm'. Pass '--force' to force installation.
For heck's sake this is just going to happen every time Ubuntu upgrades python forever, isn't it.
I thought the entire point of pipx was to prevent this.
SnoopJ
@mcc @glyph oh hrm I misread Glyph's remark, thought it was `python3-pipx`, and I could *sorta* see Ubuntu doing something weird if they had an official pipx package.
+1 to sentiment that `python3 -m pdm` working in the first place is probably the core mystery, although it's hard to imagine `apt` would drop the ball *that* hard.
Sounds like you managed to get back to a consistent state, at least.
SnoopJ
@mcc @glyph that sounds like a really good culprit for causing the weirdness
mcc
@SnoopJ @glyph So like, I uninstalled it but something inappropriately stayed around? And then two updates later an apt script finally cleaned it up properly? Geez, maybe.
Glyph
@mcc huh. looks like no, unless you did a `--break-system-packages`
Glyph
@mcc oh wait there's a python3-pdm in apt. did you install it that way?
mcc
@glyph i installed that one then uninstalled it because it was *really* old.
mcc
@glyph okay. so this makes sense. but now i'm baffled why python -m pdm has been working for me since last year without problems
Glyph
@mcc did you `pip install --user pdm` at some point?
mcc
@glyph If ubuntu would have allowed that, then conceivably?
Glyph
@mcc let me let my ubuntu install out of the oubliette for a moment to check
mcc
pipx force-reinstall did not work. pipx install --force pdm did not work. rm -r ~/.local/pipx/ && pipx install pdm did not work. any of the above followed by opening a new bash shell did not work. starting to get worried. maybe ubuntu has simply decided i should not be using pipx to install apps anymore.
mcc
Wait.
I can't access my pipx-installed pdm by running `python3 -m pdm`, but I can access it by just running `pdm`.
?? ??? ?why ??? would that ??? change ?????!
Glyph
@mcc python3 -m pdm implies that whichever 'python3' that is can import 'pdm'. But pipx installed pdm has its own virtualenv and thus its own 'python3', which you never see.
mcc
The quickfixes I used last time to fix this problem are not fixing it :(
mcc
Current status
- It was working last week
- It wasn't working 10 minutes ago
- It works now
- I understand why it works now
- I understand why it wasn't working 10 minutes ago
- But I don't understand why it was working last week
GeePawHill
@mcc "I don't see how it *ever* worked" is a surprisingly common occurrence in my career.
Jochie 👨🏻💻🏳️🌈
@GeePawHill @mcc If you follow Andi this feels like a daily event 😁
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/bk6hfl/six_stages_of_debugging/
Glyph
@SnoopJ @mcc have you installed other versions of Python outside of Apt?
mcc
@glyph @SnoopJ I mean I want to say "no" but i'm doubting many pillars of reality at this point
Owen Nelson
@mcc @glyph @SnoopJ I once "came to" and was at my computer with 8 versions of nodejs installed and had no memory of installing even one.
Glyph
@mcc @whitequark as I am attempting to validate my discovery the upgrade is going great and also incredibly thematically appropriately for this particular conversation
mcc
@glyph @whitequark it's probably impossible to figure out what I did D: I didn't actually understand how to use pipx when I first set up this machine
Glyph
@mcc @whitequark no need to stress about figuring it out precisely, this is a legit bug either way :)
mcc
@glyph @whitequark well what i fear is there might have been a point when i was trying to figure out how pipx worked that i just tried every thing i could think of and one of them might have resulted in something Weird
what's mostly weird to me is the LAST time python updated and blew away my pipxes, i just said "pipx install --force pdm" and THAT fixed it. so that's weird in a way "i fucked my system and it worked in a configuration it shouldn't have" isn't. the fucked->unfucked->fucked cycle
Glyph
@whitequark @mcc okay I think I have a forensic reconstruction of a possible scenario:
If you made a --system-site-packages virtualenv and THEN did a pip install --user, it would silently stick things into ~/.local/lib/python3.$X in a way that would be importable by the system python and that would never warn you in any way.
This might be a bug in something
mcc
@whitequark @glyph another thing confusing me is what this means and why i haven't seen it before. i assume that in moving from whatever broken pdm i had to whatever pdm i've got now, i did a big version jump??
also when i try to install i get a failure on numpy with no error message :(
mcc
@whitequark @glyph update, pdm fix and changing my pyproject.toml to require a more recent version of python have resolved my issues??? i'm just gonna chalk this up to user error and move on, thank you for the help
✧✦Catherine✦✧
mcc
@whitequark Oh.
Then why… was it… before
✧✦Catherine✦✧
@mcc you had pdm installed in some other way that was competing
mcc
@whitequark sincerely not sure how that could have happened since ubuntu bans the use of pip
✧✦Catherine✦✧
@mcc anything pipx-installed would not be accessible as `python -m ...`
Glyph
@mcc @whitequark update: the VM no longer even boots. Just starts up to BIOS, I think it corrupted something so badly that the boot … sector? EFI configuration? … is no longer even recognizable
mcc
@glyph @whitequark Yup this sounds like python package management to me
mcc
@diazona @nazokiyoubinbou yeah, uh, the reason I like using python -m is I'm used to systems with multiple pythons (a 2 and a 3, usually) and using -m guarantees you get the right one. In this case however the reason I was doing it was I didn't understand how pipx worked lol
David Zaslavsky
@nazokiyoubinbou @mcc FWIW people often recommend using python -m because it ensures that you're running code from whatever (virtual or system) #Python environment is currently activated, whereas if you run an entry point directly, like just pdm, you might be running a script that happens to be on your PATH but which does not live in the active environment. I do think it's a useful recommendation in most cases to help people avoid accidentally running things from the wrong environment.
Stuff installed with pipx is the exception, of course, because you specifically *don't* want to run it from whatever env is currently activated. (In a sense pipx is made to provide you with the illusion that a Python program is a regular old executable that you drop into PATH, i.e. you don't have to know or care that it is written in Python and you can just run it the same way as anything else.)
Nazo
@mcc I feel like using python -m is redundant and unnecessary since the scripts are in the path anyway, but it doesn't explain that issue. Is it possible python3 is pointing to a different binary that maybe uses a different path?
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