CJ Bellwether
ok, i think high frame rates of things like 60fps are cheap and make things look awful.
this is obvious for anything on film, but i tihnk its also true for video games. The fact gamers think high frame rates are good is because as a community they're critically terrible at judging what looks good.
CJ Bellwether
if you think i need to provide proof that gamers have terrible taste, no i dont and you know it.
CJ Bellwether
Cyberpunk 2077 looks better at filmic frame rates because its designed to be filmic.
maya_b
it's a bit of a weird one that for me.
having grown up with everything shot on film, and standard def tv, the super crisp stuff looks like cheap and usually after school special productions.
if "film grain" is added in post it solves a lot of the look and feel issues, by adding some "atmosphere" to it.
the film "2001" being the odd ball without atmosphere correctly looking sharp as, yet out of place.
wonder how ultra fine/crisp perceptions will change with generations.
CJ Bellwether
@maya_b well its also a built in uncanny valley stuff because the human eye doesnt see movement at such high frame rates that you can view on a screen when your eyeballs are still.
CJ Bellwether
im just glad that game designer are starting to work with intentional lower frame rates within games running at high frame rates.
CJ Bellwether
high frame rates are boomer coded because its the speed your parents tv plays films at.
josef
@siege n64 zelda ran at 20fps, or 16.66 fps in PAL region. now THAT is cinematic
CJ Bellwether
@jk i grew up on sonic in PAL, his catchphrase was "gotta go quite quickly!"
CJ Bellwether
@traumaphoenix it never does for me, its the total opposite, 60 fps is uncanny valley because the eyes just dont pick up 60 fps when they're looking around
Nyx Phoenix
@siege i find 60 helps with immersion
it also has a lot to do with shutter angle and motion blur, so if you go from 180° 24 to 180° 60, i will concede that is very jarring 🦋
CJ Bellwether
@WhyNotZoidberg Now. "Motion Smoothing" where it generates extra frames inbetween frames and comes set default to on when you buy a new tv. It's the setting you find your parents have been watching tv at whenever you visit for holidays and you're like what the hell is this slidey slippery nightmare tv you watch?
:blahaj: Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑
@siege Boomer TVs NOW or Boomers TVs when we grew up watching them?
Because 24fps seems pretty low to me 😉
CJ Bellwether
@traumaphoenix right but the scrolling on a computer screen has in built motion blur to make the experience enjoyable for human eyeballs
Nyx Phoenix
@siege that's true but i think high frame rates let me track things in a virtual environment better
for a completely different example, i can comfortably scroll and read on my phone at the same time, and i can only do that because the refresh is high enough
the way i like to explore virtual spaces is rather dependent on me being able to track things inside while the camera is panning, so i can build a good mental model of the space, and my threshold for that seems to be about ~40 🦋
CJ Bellwether
@hazelnot i disagree, your eyes dont actually do that high a frame rate, a lot is blurred brain filling in the gaps and your eyes dont move in a smooth motion, they continually jump from point to point
hazelnot :yell:
@siege well the thing is, watching something and playing something are different things
I prefer watching stuff at normal framerates when it comes to movies and TV and stuff, but with games you are in control of what's going on usually
A higher framerate is closer to what your eyes do, as well as minimizing input lag which is important for certain types of game (especially stuff like twitch shooters - not a fan of them but hey people like them)
But yeah different types of media - games aren't made for *watching*, at least not as their primary function
CJ Bellwether
@hazelnot eyes can see things at higher frame rates when they are looking at a singular point ie a screen. But when they are looking at the real world around them they are not staying still, they are continually moving, repositioning, and objects are moving fast in a dimension that means they blur.
hazelnot :yell:
@siege I feel like if eyes didn't do the equivalent of a high framerate I would literally be unable to pick up on high framerates on a screen lol
But yeah anyway I respect your opinion to prefer slower framerates but maybe don't paint anyone who disagrees as gamers and objectively in the wrong 😬
You're a cool person but I felt attacked by the post cause I'm a designer and my BA thesis was literally about how much Gamers suck 💀
CJ Bellwether
@hazelnot on a screen you can transmit more data to the eyeball than it would normally recognise in the real world, which leads to that uncanny valley feeling
CJ Bellwether
@hazelnot why would you feel attacked if your own thesis was that gamers suck?
CJ Bellwether
@hazelnot fair enough
hazelnot :yell:
@siege cause I also prefer high framerates in games and then you implied that anyone who does is a Gamer who has no sense of aesthetics
CJ Bellwether
@WhyNotZoidberg heres the effect in demonstration if you watch this fullscreen at 60fps
:blahaj: Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑
@siege Mother in law probably has it on. Parents not so much. Tho their TV is about 10 years old at this point so maybe it wasn't enabled by default then...
CJ Bellwether
this is what i mean by boomer coded frame rate
CJ Bellwether
@miiamustang yeah i find somewhere in the like 40/45 area feels ok for a fps.
I've got a very nice medium going on where i now play using cloud gaming which streams a game running 90fps to me at 60fps, but the reality is the video feed reduces the frame rates further. Surprisingly those multiple translations of frame rates leads to a really nice nonslippery quite filmic area.
Miia Mustang
@siege In competitive pvp shooters the 60 fps does help ligning up shots more quickly, but the difference is very slight.
An average player most likely wouldn't be able to leverage that bit of performance effectively.
Which is why I personally don't mind playing at 30fps most of the time. :D
CJ Bellwether
@miiamustang yes definitely. Cyberpunk for me was the one where i was like, no i cant play this at 60fps, it is destroying everything they've crafted. If its something not trying to provide immersion and instead is something absurd like mario kart or balatro or whatever absolutely, give me weird magical everything
Miia Mustang
@siege For me it's an immersion thing.
If I play (albeit non-competitive) shooter like Warframe, I do enjoy 60fps as the gameplay can get hectic at times, especially in endgame where visual effects can over-clutter the screen :D
But if I'm playing an immersive experience like Skyrim, Fallout, Bannerlord or Red Dead Redemption 2, I wanna soak in the atmosphere. At that point, a steady cinematic framerate feels more fitting as it calms things down a bit! :3
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