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Is Christianity in the US getting stronger or weaker?
You know I'm right.
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@judgedread Will do a video on it, try to get people thinking in that direction.
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@judgedread Christianity won't get us to where we need to go. We need something older and tribal.
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@Bianca Build it. I'm not picky.
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@thefinn @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread same here...Catholic is just another word for con artist politicians pretending to be clergy. There is SO much blasphemy spewed by Jorge, I wonder why exactly "the faithful" are still in the pews?
Sheeple.
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The narrow gate is for the few.
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@mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread No I'm not an atheist. I was brought up catholic - but I dislike the dogma with a passion.
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@mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread And Protestantism glosses over all of this, including the saints.
Shit I hear protestants going on about how "God is justice"
Fuck no he's not. And any quick study of what happened to those saints would tell them that.
Many of those stupid idiots still think the upside down cross is some satanist plot by the Catholics lol
It's a symbol of St Peter who was crucified upside down. Try telling that to a Protestant.
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@mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread It's distilled idiocy.
And by distilling it they think it's pure and good.
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Are you atheist or just doubting all the dogma?
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@mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread That's not good enough.
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@mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread I'll give you an example.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Word" is translated from the greek word "Logos" here.
Except that's not what Logos MEANS. It means intellect. It means intelligence and reason. Logic. It also means language - the difference between us and the animals.
These things are "of god"
This logic was "made flesh"
And historically this makes a lot of sense, as Paul was the first one to try and preach Christianity to the greeks. He failed and was sent home by "The Jews and the Stoics".
If you were greek, were you going to give up 4000 years of philosophy, math and scholarship for stories about a guy who walks on water?
John then went over and this was his testament. The very first line is a testament to rational thought, not fucking magic.
It was him bending to the idea of reason and intellect being part of god and the church.
But you'll get some protestant preacher standing up there on the dias waving his bible around screaming about "The word" - with absolutely no fucking idea what he's talking about.
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@Escoffier @CommanderCulture @judgedread That's because you're ignorant. It's taught that way on purpose.
All you do is screech about things that happened 500 years ago. And misinterpret a book most of which ha been around since before Christ.
And then you have the audacity to go on about the crusades, how we're all the same Christians then. You guys sided with the muslims something like 13 times during that shit.
Got some balls going on about Crusades to me too.
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Everything we've been taught is a lie. The one truth I know is Christ rose from the grave and is the light, truth and the way✝️
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@CommanderCulture @judgedread I gotta say, if it's protestant. I'm out.
It's the most ignorant shit I've ever heard, perpetrated by the most ignorant people under the sun. I just can't.
I'd rather back the Traditional Worker's Party lol
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@thefinn @CommanderCulture @judgedread Oddly enough I feel the exact same way about the Catholic Church.
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@thefinn @judgedread A valid point, prescient even. But it's still true that the most militant and "likely" Christians in the world to affect a Clown World coup, or to create something from the ashes of a Clown World self-immolation are in the US - Protestant flavor or Catholic flavor. (A good argument could be made the Russians have nailed this down with Orthodoxy in the East.)
But for the life of me, your comment didn't make logical sense to me. I immediately reframed it like this:
"You'd think with all the [right-wingism] in the [1940s Germany] it would be the centre of [Nazi politiccs].
And yet it's the place where the [heaviest attack on rightism] in the world goes on, [it's a literal warzone where the most anti-right powers in the world attack it]."
Forgive me for parsing your comment, but as the most militantly Christian nation in the world for 200 years running, Christianity in the US has been under the heaviest attack. What we are witnessing isn't the organic weakening of the faith, but rather the results of a concentrated attack on the Faithful. Just like the Allies broke Germany then Japan, jews and satanic powers targeted America first - then it's easy to make Europe fall.
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@judgedread You'd think with all the religion in the USA it would be the centre of religion for Christianity.
And yet it's the place where the most evil shit in the world goes on, you have to visit some kind of brutal, merciless warzone to get a place that's worse.
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@UnCL3 @thefinn @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread Most people don't pay much attention to the Pope. I can promise you that the average Catholic thinks about Pope Francis less often than the average antiCatholic Protestant. Basically every discussion I have about him is expressing frustrations.
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@thefinn @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread I will say that there's probably something extraordinary about The Catholic Church for it to survive and thrive in situations like this. The churches around me are growing, especially the most traditional ones that are focused on God and willing to give some call to repentance.
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@BowsacNoodle @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread Yup.
I just dislike what he's doing to the church, and the fact that it's a lost opportunity. This would've been a great time for an iron fist in the chair who was NOT tolerant of anything.
That would've brought way more people to the church, and shown there was still some backbone left somewhere.
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@thefinn @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread It's possible that this is what God wants right now, because it's forcing individual Catholics (and all Christians really) to take more of a stance instead of relying on Church authority. We're likely entering a period of "white martyrdom" in the West, where people will lose prestige and their comfy lifestyle for choosing to follow Christ and rejecting worldliness.
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@thefinn @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread I have a soft spot for Luther, being raised Protestant and hearing Super Lutheran give some excellent explanations. Basically all the aspects of my Protestant priors I like fit will with Lutheranism, and I'd likely be a Lutheran if I wasn't E.C. Rome has grown on me quite a bit, but I do get why Protestants harp on it even if I tend to think they're misinformed.
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@BowsacNoodle @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread It's the big advantage to having a giant institution that has many limbs. You can have a few idiots in there, and even an idiot at the top, and it generally weeds them out over time.
Even bad ideas. All the ideas protestants go on about were from 500 years ago or whatever, were eventually weeded out. The problem with Martin Luther was, he wanted change *right now*
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@BowsacNoodle @UnCL3 @mjdigspigs @CommanderCulture @Escoffier @judgedread BTW this is the same logic that puts monarchy at the top of the list for stability as well.
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I think the 501 (c)(3) status cemented the corruption.
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Yep.
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Who would have thought the rhetorical question "Is the Pope Catholic?" would become a literal question, but here we are.
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@wing_str @judgedread @thefinn >Prot tards who feel their feelings (in lieu of proper rational faith) and reject 5 out of 7 Sacraments are naturally getting weaker.
There are Catholic and Orthodox priests known to have wept for hours during devotional prayers or even liturgy. Their faith doesn't have to rely on rationality, and I think it's a bit foolish to be so closed off and neglect the emotional side of spirituality. I don't care for hyper charismatic worship, quite the opposite personally, but I'm not going to say someone is less of a believer than me because they skip over Aquinas and pray and read their Bible. These arguments are foolish.
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@judgedread This depends on what you consider "Christianity".
Prot tards who feel their feelings (in lieu of proper rational faith) and reject 5 out of 7 Sacraments are naturally getting weaker.
The Roman Mass according to the last Church Calendar (1962) and Eastern Orthodox Liturgy, both accepted by Rome (though the East-West unity hasn't yet occurred) are both growing in the US. Under the Roman rite Novus Ordo is bleeding because people are more aware now than ever that it is almost as watered down as vapid Prot heresy.
Look into SSPX and FSSP parishes, look into the growth of the Tridentine Mass (esp. since Pope Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum), look into the explosion of Eastern Orthodoxy. These things are exploding with growth. You need to arrive an hour early for Low Mass to get a seat in the overflow rooms. They cannot build fast enough to house new parishioners.
These are generally more resilient people having a dozen kids apiece, marrying within their parish, protecting their daughters and raising strong sons. Homeschoolers, homesteaders, one family interdependent with nearly every other family in the parish, every one of these places provides insulation against the miasma of American rot and degeneracy. Very White, as well, though the swarthier varieties can't be excluded entirely (and for the Church really shouldn't be - that's primarily a state function to be supported by the Church, iirc). Regardless, it appeals primarily to Whites naturally.
True Doctrine, real strict adherence to Christian virtue, is on the rise. (((They))) specifically fear the proper Apostolic Succession, too, as they're sitting plainclothes feds in Tridentine Masses, and presumably Orthodox Liturgy as well.
Somehow they're not bothered at all by Pastor Jim's Bible-Church™.
@thefinn
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@BowsacNoodle @wing_str @judgedread @thefinn I mean it's the same kinds of swings you get out of e-high church types all the time so I really am not surprised by it.
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@reloadedAK @wing_str @judgedread @thefinn I just want better for my fellow Christians. I know the concept of "ecumenism" has a very negative connotation in most traditional circles—Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox alike— but I don't like seeing the worst types of bad faith misrepresentation of other Christians. We have a real common enemy. We don't have to pretend that we fully agree with one another, but it generally pushes agnostic and non-churchgoers away when they see people flinging 💩 at each other over bad faith takes.
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@BowsacNoodle @wing_str @judgedread @thefinn Agreed. I usually don't start bible fights unless it's some faggy atheist takes like with the guy who says he's a "Former Baptist"
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@reloadedAK @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @thefinn They're necessary though. Infinity "denominations" is very Talmudic. Something has to change, and unity is the only way.
Jesus Christ didn't say He was building a million Churches on a million Rocks, but only after 1500 years when a v. Special Boy named Fr. Martin Luther gets real impatient with the Church. He said he's building One Church on the rock that is St. Peter.
I didn't make the rules, I'm just trying to follow them. I'm not great at it, but here I am.
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@wing_str @reloadedAK @judgedread @thefinn I don't see any contradiction between Rome being a rock upon which The Church is built and multiple other churches. Rome was always first among equals in the historic early church, but the keyword there is equals rather than first. The Speaker Of The House is still a house member even if he breaks ties and speaks first, just as The Pope as Bishop of Rome was.
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@BowsacNoodle @reloadedAK @judgedread @thefinn Correct, there are multiple churches. They all accept the primary of St Peter and his (obviously flawed, they're men) successors as the tie-breaker for the inevitable bickering over Doctrine, they all accept Church Doctrine, and are therefore part of the Universal Catholic Church.
Outside of that, there is no Church. Just a bunch of Talmudic infinite reinterpretation and fractal splitting.
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@wing_str @reloadedAK @judgedread @thefinn >they all accept Church Doctrine, and are therefore part of the Universal Catholic Church.
Sure but this is where it gets weird and grey. The political aspect stepped in and amplified when counsels were challenging or impossible to properly hold. One can make a sound argument either in defense of or against Rome's actions during the medieval period. It is impossible to hold proper councils when bandits and marauders and war are at your doorstep and you need unity and all hands on deck, and it is improper to acquire power from necessity and not surrender it when necessity ends. Unfortunately a reasonable argument can once again be made for both sides of this. I'm of the opinion that Rome became the de facto leader and tradition carried that further than it should. I could be wrong; I'm ignorant on some things and not well versed in church law and its apologetics.
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@judgedread When Eric Rudolph was allowed to just twist in the wind instead of getting massive support from other Christians as a big black pill as to the state of the hypocrisy that calls itself the Church, today.
There are quite a few other folks who have been sentenced to 10-11 yrs for merely standing in front of an abortion clinic, but you don't hear about them and you dang sure don't hear any church talking about them. A true church leader would have their entire congregation surround one of those clinics and disassemble it brick by brick. But, we don't have church leaders anymore. We have charlatans who placate the masses with honeyed words that make them feel good on Sundays.
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@LatigoMorgan The woman who went to prison for protesting abortion was convicted with a law signed by the rapist, adulterer and fornicator Bill Clinton who survived a scandal where he got a blowjob from an intern in the Oval Office.
That's why one of the founders of the Moral Majority threw in the towel at the time. There hasn't been a moral majority for a long time.
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@judgedread That there are abortion clinics in the US allowed to exist should explain the state of Christianity in the US.
Tell me, what could be more evil than murdering life in the womb for the sake of convenience? Yet, those who stand up against it are labeled as kooks by even their fellow "Christians".
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@missjanedoe @epictittus @judgedread They hate Jesus Christ more than anyone but Satan himself. Being subservient to Christians is, to the jew, aaaaaallllllmost as demeaning as *kvetches loudly* manual labor.
They hate Whites because the White pagans were meant to be their big beefy Christian-murdering Shabbos Goyim™. They were supposed to do the manual-labor bit of wiping Christ's Name from the world.
They weren't supposed to convert and despise the degeneracy of the jew.
So the jew wants Whites dead, even if White Christians are the only group on earth willing to take pity on the jew to any degree. Even if the White Christian is the only reason a jew can eat, drink, drive, have air conditioning, have running water (lol doesn't matter to jews, they hate bathing), etc.
Why now? It's more like they're always doing this and right now we see it and it makes less sense than usual.
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Kind of ironic they are desperately trying to destroy the very group of people who are most likely to let them be. I would say even in Medieval times when Christian countries were less likely to be as ‘tolerant’, they still were able to live and thrive apparently. Even if they were barred from certain things and made to wear clothes that identified them… so why now? What do you think?
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@judgedread Again, I agree. I happen to believe something akin to what @epictittus talks about, which is that the overall population is going to be obliterated. I happen to think an invading force won't even be involved, at least in North America. It'll just be mostly niggers and spics eating each other in the streets when the EBT cards are shut off.
The Sunday griller, coombrain, bugman, etc. will similarly be caught up in the river of blood. They are physically and spiritually unprepared for what's coming, and will never hear what any of us have to say. The Tridentine Mass enjoyer will circle the wagons with their parish.
The memetic distance between TradCath/Orthodoxy and some coombrain is less meaningful than the memetic distance between the coombrain and hard reality (when it hits). The numbers will adjust accordingly.
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@wing_str @judgedread Whites have high competence, outgroup empathy and trust, which makes parasites like jews possible.
Theres a reason there are no jews in other parts of the world, and its not for lack of trying. Jews started the Chinese communist revolution and migrated there en masse to take them over. They failed. Same for Japan, same for Turkey during Ottoman times.... it never works because the host must have all three (competence, empathy and trust) for jews to exist.
In the West, their most fundamental long-term problem is competence, nonwhites cant fix passenger jets or even simple things like bridges. But their most immediate short-term problem is a lack of outgroup empathy and trust, as we are seeing on college campuses now.
As the West becomes more brown, jews will become less relevant, but the whites will face similar problems. The best peaceful scenario we are looking at Brazil as a model, where jews survive on the periphery as a corrupt underclass, but whites also experience hardship. The best combative scenario we have is the Balkan wars, where the jews flee or are killed, brown invaders get genocided in some areas, and theres weird white-only states next to mexican-only states with fucked up borderd that hate each other.
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@wing_str Hitler's memetic distance from the German masses was small. Before WWII almost all White men were racially aware or went along with the racially aware. There had been very little leftist conditioning. Higher education had jew infestation but few attended.
Compare to the memetic distance between someone who plays GTA or watches porn and a devout trad Christian. Or even compare the church attender to the typical Sunday sportsball enthusiast or griller.
Quantity has a quality all its own. Number one complaint of evangelists polled is not that the people are evil, it's that the people aren't interested in even hearing it.
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@wing_str In terms of influence these are very small fish. The most detailed rundown on Orthodoxy in the US I could find claimed about 200k attend services regularly in a nation of 330 million.
I don't have the numbers on trad Catholic parishes. Any idea how many we're talking here?
I tend to agree that self-help prosperity free market Christianity has failed conclusively.
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@judgedread You're not wrong, and it's not many, but the growth is huge. I can't offer statistics because the post-1917 parasitic influence in Rome really doesn't like the Tridentine Mass. I can only report what I see.
The people are much more aware and higher quality, flat out. If we're talking about a group being small fish, there was a miniscule group of men drinking beer in Germany in the 20's that changed quite a bit. It doesn't take much.
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@latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn @wing_str >Every single church in existence claims to be that one church...
Gnosticcoming in with the dopiest take.
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@wing_str @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn
Every single church in existence claims to be that one church Jesus supposedly made the vague pronunciation he would build a church on a rock.
Being the dominant church is not proof you're that church if it even exists.
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@latein @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn Yes but only one has St. Peter and his successors at the helm.
Everything else is pilpul.
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@wing_str @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn I still don't think it's fair to call it pilpul. God will use whomever He pleases even if said man can't make it to seminary and become an official priest. The Jesus Movement brought a lot of people to Christ completely outside of any apostolic lineage. A bunch of those dudes became Catholics and Antiochian Orthodox after a while though, so maybe that says something.
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@wing_str @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn
That's the thing, they all claim to have Peter and his successors at the helm too. And nobody has any evidence of this, so the Baptist and Lutheran claims to be that one true authentic church Jesus founded are equally valuable to your's.
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@latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn @wing_str it's not the same thing and you know this. They commonly believe The Catholic Church to be the whore of Babylon and The Pope to be the antichrist, which means they're simply against the antichrist by their logic. Peter as the rock becomes less permanent and more historical within the same framework.
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@BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn @wing_str
Typical Christian maneuver
I was talking about Baptists, SDAs, Mormons etc. because those unanimously agree that Matthew is scripture. Marcion didn't so Gnosticism isn't in the picture for once.
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@latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn @wing_str I thought that you were a Gnostic yourself from prior discussion. You lost this discussion several days ago; arianism ≠ Christian, so don't link Mormons with Baptists.
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@BowsacNoodle @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn It's absolutely fair to look at Protestant degeneration over 500 years into somewhere around 5k-10k sects of what may as well at this point be rabbinic opinion, including troon Prots and faggot Prots, divorce Prots and abortion Prots, and call it pilpul.
It's literally the same thing. You could probably compile Prot theology overall into a completely self-referencing refutation of everything Christ taught, between all the disagreements and do as thou wilt's.
Just because some Prots converted to Catholicism doesn't mean the Protestant "churches" were responsible. I've met multiple priests who are former Atheists. All Creation serves God, willingly or not. Attributing the result of God's Grace to a heretical institution is irrational.
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@latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn @wing_str Once again, nobody cares about the Pope.
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@wing_str @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn
You can compile Catholicism into a refutation of everything Jesus taught:
Luke 9:56, 1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Timothy 4:1, Revelation 22:9 ... etc.
You can also compile it into a refutation of everything the Catholic church taught under different administration:
Geocentrism, whether salvation can be found outside the Catholic church, whether clergy can be married ... etc.
You yourself have a faggot loving and ecumenical Pope, and you want to talk about Protestation degeneration lmao.
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@wing_str @latein @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn >Mr. Pebble is the Rock
I'm glad to know that foundational concept of Christianity is worshipping Pebble and not Christ.
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@SpurgAnon @latein @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn The primacy of St. Peter and his successors as the earthly head of the Church is not the same as worship. This is why the Mass is centered on God and the Holy Sacrifice of His Son.
What you're doing is conflating the two and making a statement designed to get others to unknowingly do the same.
This is pilpul. Poast nose, kike.
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@Spingebill @wing_str @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn Nobody dislikes the Pope more than Catholics. The difference is we respect him because he holds the office.
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@wing_str @latein @BowsacNoodle @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn
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@thefinn @wing_str @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK Chaplain. Sometimes before ordination they'll be assigned that job, which is awful.
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@BowsacNoodle @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK @thefinn What is weird is Pope Francis finds strength on some topics, but also does these insane cosmopolitan things.
There are knives to throats the we can't see, I think. Pope Benedict XVI pushed the Tridentine Mass and was removed, which shows the extent to which bad men have had power in the Church in the last century. Looks like that power is waning though. Can't wait to get back to pogroms.
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@wing_str @BowsacNoodle @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK I had a big argument with one of those dudes who comes around to you when you're in hospital while I was there.
They aren't priests, but I can't remember the name of them. They are kinda like Pastor's but he was catholic.
I got into him about it, because he was of course a new-age fucking idiot. Half of them are women too - but non-catholic from what I could see.
"What's the point of being religious if you're only going to change the religion to whatever is in vogue at the moment?"
"The whole point is to have standards, and that pope has none."
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@BowsacNoodle @wing_str @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK Naa these weren't even in a seminary. He had been to seminary school, but dropped out because he didn't like <something I can't remember> about it.
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@thefinn @TactlessWookie @wing_str @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK Deacons have to go to seminary I thought. At least in the Eastern churches they do, and the only way they can marry is if they're married prior to deaconate appointment which happens before ordination.
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@TactlessWookie @wing_str @BowsacNoodle @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK That's it. Deacon.
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@thefinn @wing_str @BowsacNoodle @Spingebill @latein @judgedread @reloadedAK >They aren't priests, but I can't remember the name of them
Deacon?
Judge Dread
Bianca
UnCL3
Bob
thefinn
mjdigspigs
Escoffier Gab refugee
CommanderCulture
BowserNoodle ☦️
CrustyB
wing_str
reloadedAK :ak:
Latigo Morgan
missjanedoe🤍✝️
Semilexic
Protoss
Spurg
Spingebill
Tactless Wookie
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