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   DARK MAGA (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:08 JST DARK MAGA

   • Unacceptable IcyGrillz

   And people wonder why I call you toads ALTifa. You're indistinguishable from the left. Congrats! @IcyGrillz

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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:49:59 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     @eriner @amerika I am sympathetic mostly to freedom but i do see some value in monarchy. Again we all face the problem of people who want to be leader which inevitable lead to government. What this mostly means no system will last as long or last to long in some cases and i don't think there is a solution.
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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:00 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     @eriner @IcyGrillz @truthbait
     
     When we look at really big business suicides, like Sears, it is always amazing that things went wrong.
     
     And yet, voluntarism applies. They trusted people instead of removing the bad ones.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:00 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ≠

     @amerika I don't claim people or organizations are infallible, and once again the same argument could be made against Monarchy, which under the same condition would likely produce much more brutal and violent result.

     I agree with you that the State's removal of freedom of association (forced diversification) has led to undesirable outcomes.

     But I remain unconvinced that Monarchy is superior to abolition of the State.

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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:01 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     • ≠

     @amerika @IcyGrillz @truthbait

     > However voluntarism breaks down with the first bad actor.

     I don't think that's true, otherwise businesses couldn't exist.

     You're not *forced* to work for a company to accomplish mutually beneficial goals, exchanging your time for just compensation.

     In any sufficiently large business, there will always be at LEAST one bad actor.

     But those businesses still exist. They're simply forced by the State to outsource violence, when required, to the State.

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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:02 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     • ≠

     @amerika @IcyGrillz @truthbait

     > This assumes that all men are equal in reason

     I don't think that's relevant. People have the natural right of freedom of association, regardless of how retarded they may be.

     > Voluntarism leads to democracy

     I could say the same of Monarchy. Perhaps "representational government" would be more accurate, but you get my point. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

     The political zeitgeist is always in a state of flux because it's a product of people alive at the time.

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:02 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     @eriner @IcyGrillz @truthbait
     
     "Rights" are only relevant insofar as they turn into good results.
     
     In an ideal society of high eugenics, yes, you can basically trust people, and monarchy does this by avoiding micromanagement.
     
     However voluntarism breaks down with the first bad actor.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:03 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     • ≠

     @amerika @IcyGrillz @truthbait I'd prefer Monarchy to America's current sham of a Government, at least I wouldn't be psyopped at every waking moment, and you'd know whose head to pike, but I don't accept that any man has non-consensual dominion over another.

     I don't oppose voluntary organizations formed on legitimate consent, but fundamentally I see no difference between Monarchy and Kleptocracy, except that Kleptocracy is more "efficient".

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:03 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     @eriner @IcyGrillz @truthbait
     
     "I don't accept that any man has non-consensual dominion over another."
     
     This assumes that all men are equal in reason, which is a mistake in my view.
     
     Voluntarism is just anarchy.
     
     Democracy of course relies on manipulation and is therefore unreliable, which is why it always leads to tyranny.
     
     Voluntarism leads to democracy.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:04 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     • ≠

     @amerika @IcyGrillz @truthbait You and I differ in that I think the State itself is the problem, but I agree that State forced diversification produces issues that should be quite apparent to anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass.

     Do you think the State should actively oppose diversification, or do you think that the State has no right to interfere (or exist at all), therefore allowing people freedom of association?

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:04 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     @eriner @IcyGrillz @truthbait
     
     I oppose the State entirely and support the monarchy instead. We need leaders; anarchy is a pipe dream.
     
     Any sane leader would oppose diversity because it is destructive.
     
     Freedoms are for the population, which is ethno-national in definition.
     
     These are the big things that have to be handled SO THAT individual autonomy ("freedom," "liberty," etc) can exist.
     
     If ye harm none, do as thou wilt otherwise.
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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:05 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz
     @IcyGrillz @truthbait
     
     jew memes are edgy but egalitarianism/individualism is killing us all
     
     jew and gentile alike
   • Embed this notice
     Unacceptable IcyGrillz (icygrillz@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:06 JST Unacceptable IcyGrillz

     in reply to

     @truthbait in 7 years the only memes on here that make ppl bitch are the jew ones. Right over target!

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     DARK MAGA (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:07 JST DARK MAGA

     in reply to

     • Unacceptable IcyGrillz

     The real way to tell the difference is the left actually acts on their bigotry. They get out there and mix it up. Attacking Jews in person. You sparkle queens are flaccid and do nothing but pound your keyboards. So the impotence is the biggest tell. @IcyGrillz

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     Unacceptable IcyGrillz (icygrillz@noauthority.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Apr-2024 11:50:08 JST Unacceptable IcyGrillz

     in reply to

     @truthbait anyone can call me w/e they want. Heres a guide to help u distiguish the difference... if its not funny or true its the left.

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 00:53:22 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @dcc @eriner
     
     My red pill was the Cro-Mags: "anarchy's a mess."
     
     There are going to be leaders.
     
     Any society without leaders will quickly become slaves to one with leaders.
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 00:53:22 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     @amerika @eriner Key word i said is there is going to be a leader. People who want to control others and the state is just one massive way to do it.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 00:57:37 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     How does that comport with what you said, then?

     > There are going to be leaders.

     > Any society without leaders will quickly become slaves to one with leaders.

     The second part is entirely obviated by the first.

     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 00:57:38 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     The existence of Leaders does not demand existence of a State.

     Do you reject the notion that corporation owners are leaders?

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 00:57:38 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     Leaders are anyone who leads. These can be state, aristocratic, or corporate if you believe something like Moldbug's "patchwork" can work.
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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:28:45 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     False dichotomy here as well as missing the big point.
     
     Having reservoirs and other organized methods of dealing with a flood are imporant, as is planning for a flood when the storm is on the horizon.
     
     Having a leader to direct people toward organized activity leads to efficiencies and also defense of the commons.
     djsumdog likes this.
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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:28:46 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     In other words, a committee.
     
     Which has to debate, slowly.
     
     "Consent" is the fiction of democracy.
     
     You want to repeat that experiment?
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:28:46 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     If high ground water and persistent flooding is impacting my property and my neighbors property, we all have a vested interest in fixing the problem.

     Maybe fixing it is only worth $400 to one neighbor, $800 to another, and $1200 to me. (yes, wouldn't be using dollars but humor me).

     Either we can work with the resources we have, can't do it, or need a different solution.

     I'd rather work it out with my neighbors than have the State steal from me and never fix it anyway.

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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:28:47 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     Anarchy does not imply no leadership, is my point which seems to have been lost.

     Suggesting that anarchy can't work because we *have* to have a criminal enterprise to enslave people in order to run public works projects from on high is preposterous, demonstrably so (business).

     Anarchy != no leaders.

     Anarchy != everyone unwilling to pool efforts for necessary works

     Consent is literally the only difference.

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:28:48 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     The second is why the first is true. One of the reasons, at least.
     
     Anarchy is nice when you have a little island with a few dozen to a few hundred people on it.
     
     Then the ships appear on the horizon.
     
     Or, a famine hits. Or there is a storm coming.
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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:31:56 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     I agree. Anarchy might work in a little cult community, or to replace an HOA in a gated community ... but even then you're talking about a lot of people with resources and vested interest.
     
     The computers (or phones) we're typing on right now, and the networking infrastructure that makes global community possible, does requite a State (multiple states). You cannot have technology at the scale we have without institution some type of governance. You can't have interoperability without standards. Something as simple as the postal system, or as complex as Interstates/Autobahns, still requires a functioning State to work.
     
     Anarchy doesn't scale.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:31:57 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     Then I don't understand the fundamental argument.

     I thought you were arguing against anarchy and in favor of monarchy because "anarchy's a mess" and "Anarchy is nice when you have a little island with a few dozen to a few hundred people on it.", with the conversation leading one to conclude that the reason for this is due to a lack of leader(ship).

     But now we've come full circle and agree that leaders need not be of the State.

     So it's not an argument against Anarchy?

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:31:57 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     Anarchy does not work; voluntarism does not work.
     
     Let us try there.
     
     I dislike the State as well.
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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:31:58 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     @eriner @dcc
     
     No, aristocrats are leaders outside of the State.
     
     If a corporation owns an island, it can have leaders too.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:31:59 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @amerika @dcc

     > Having a leader to direct people toward organized activity leads to efficiencies and also defense of the commons.

     You keep saying stuff about a "leader" with the implication that it HAS to be one of the State.

     But I've already addressed the fact that this is NOT a requirement: https://noauthority.social/@eriner/112355332258753840

     Your only complaint, from what I can tell, is "consent is slow and inconvenient"

     Sorry, but that's where you lose me.

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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 01:49:02 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     @djsumdog @amerika @eriner >need the state
     Again its not need its rather it will exist because of people want to control others.
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     Matt Hamilton (eriner@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 02:00:00 JST Matt Hamilton

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • ≠

     @djsumdog @amerika @dcc oh yeah?

     Who owns the lines, routers, and all the gear that the packets from this message are going to traverse?

     The US Federal Government own all that? lol.

     It's owned by businesses that have mutual operating agreements with one another (peering).

     Suggesting that the State is required for the Internet to function is hilarious because it isn't even involved today as we speak, except to interfere and fuck shit up.

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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 02:00:00 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     Ultimately all those signals go over telephone poles or in underground cable. May I remind you that at one time, every competing railroad ran their own track. This became unsustainable when you had eight parallel rail lines, of different gauges, that didn't intersect.
     
     Like rail track, many countries standardized telecommunication wires, poles, etc. They may have still been owned by Bellsouth, ATT, Telefonica, whoever .. but regulations meant everyone had to play by the same rules; allowing competition to buy virtual dedicated circuits on public utility infrastructure.
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     Ethical Pedophile (blinkrape@posting.lolicon.rocks)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 02:00:25 JST Ethical Pedophile

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     @djsumdog @amerika @dcc @eriner
     
     Anarchy and Free Market Capitalism are two opposite extremes of the same idea. Neither scales well without some kind of central planning or regulation. The best Humans will ever achieve is to establish a middle point and stay there.
     djsumdog likes this.
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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 02:02:06 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     or because it just naturally arises because it has to in order for things to work. This constantly happens in nature. There is one queen bee and thousands of workers/drones. They have evolved to work somewhat independently, but they have also evolved to serve the colony.
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 02:12:58 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠
     @djsumdog @amerika @eriner >it has to in order for things to work
     Again, its becuase people want to rule over others, its not really about "working better" its a human problem.
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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 04:50:55 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • Sir Matthew, Black Knight
     • ≠
     Does BTC Lightning not have a governing board? Have people not stepped up to the plate to define the standard and others accepted it?
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     Sir Matthew, Black Knight (ent@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 04:50:56 JST Sir Matthew, Black Knight

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • ≠

     @djsumdog @amerika @dcc @eriner
     And yet people are voluntarily organizing without the state to create standards like Podcasting 2.0 and BTC Lightning. States are not required for good standards.

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     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Apr-2024 05:34:59 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Matt Hamilton
     • Sir Matthew, Black Knight
     @djsumdog @dcc @ent @eriner
     
     Next up: RFCs are voluntarist. Really. They swear it.
     djsumdog likes this.