Clive Thompson
I repeat this anecdote a lot so forgive me if you've heard it, but ...
... my Ukrainian-Canadian grandfather ran his dairy farm using a 1960s-era truck ...
... which was by today's standards *tiny*: Lower-slung, small cab
But!
It was *more usable* than today's monstrosities
It had a longer bed than today's trucks; being lower-slung made loading/unloading easier
Again: He ran a whole-ass farm with this vehicle; drove over rough terrain
Nobody *needs* today's bloated, paramilitary trucks
Stu
@thomasfuchs @clive I suspect the overwhelming majority are Chelsea Tractors. Or perhaps Chelsea Tanks, given the size of modern pickups.
Clive Thompson
Yeah, I take your point about towing
I would hazard a guess, though, that a rather small proportion of these ginormous trucks on the road are doing much towing
I could be wrong! But that'd be my guess
People tend to buy vehicles based on an imaginary maximum spec (I'll be offroading a lot, etc) that they never use
autumn ☀️ waiting for summer
@thomasfuchs @clive i’ve always really wished we had the light little trailers like they do in europe so i didn’t need a big truck to haul mine. that said, the truck only leaves the driveway if we’re towing or hauling something in the bed.
Clive Thompson
That golf-cart trend has its own problems, mind you; in a collision with a regular car, it's terribly dangerous to be in a golf cart
But the *demand* for vehicles that are smaller and lighter, in so many towns -- I encountered tons of them while riding across the country this year -- is damn interesting
Clive Thompson
Yep yep -- I know plenty of folks who'd prefer alternatives that are lighter yet highly capable
If a European firm ever produced a left-hand-drive version of those trucks, I bet they'd find a decent, and possibly significant, market in the US
As a rough parallel, consider all the smaller US towns that are permitting golf-carts to be driven around -- residents seem to enjoy having a small lightweight alternative for errands
Clive Thompson
(Though I've always been a bit dubious about how durable are those fold-in/fold-out units)
Clive Thompson
Yeah, I've seen some good options in smaller trailers
Some of 'em have these wild fold-out engineering now -- it's like you pull a cord and *pop* it's a three-story house 😂
Clive Thompson
o yes
Having bicycled to 10,267 feet in the rockies, I can attest it is QUITE A CLIMB
(Though I didn't do the Teton pass, which has several miles of a 10-degree grade yeeeeow)
autumn ☀️ waiting for summer
@clive @thomasfuchs tell me about it. i ride my bike (electric sometimes, acoustic other) for in-town errands, and it’s always a gamble.
thankfully have only been hit by a car once (fractured my pelvis, yeesh).
Bruce Heerssen
@thomasfuchs @clive @autumn
I'm considering getting a smaller travel trailer to tow behind my Nissan Frontier. I specifically don't want slide-outs, with their added complexity and attendant maintenance issues.
Clive Thompson
Yeah, that's what I wondered about too -- they're fiddly, just more things to break
Sir_Osis_of_Liver
Dad hauled a 30' 5th wheel all around North America in a '95 Chevy Cheyenne 2500. Regular cab, long bed, 5.7L with manual transmission and 2wd. It only had 200hp, but he had no issues running at highway speeds.
That would have been really close in size to that '65 F150, closer than anything on the road these days.
CelloMom On Cars
I understand the term is
"Pavement Princess"
All the off-road capabilities, never used.
Meanwhile in Canada
This photo says it all
Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
jiub
@thomasfuchs @clive My grandparents took a ~30 ft trailer all across the US with their malaise era Chrysler Newport (a big sedan). Today's trucks are just ridiculously oversized and overpowered particularly since most non-work trucks are just used to commute to the office.
Kit Rhett Aultman
@clive Absolutely spot on. And what gets my goat even harder is that, throughout my childhood (80s and 90s), we had an answer for rural and exurban people who needed moderate cargo capacity, light hauling ability, and/or a little offroad capability-- light trucks like the Ford Ranger. But many/most of those were discontinued, and the ones that were brought back were done only after marketing had shifted consumer tastes.
Kit Rhett Aultman
@clive Indeed indeed. I still cling to the old, slightly dented Ranger my partner's parents sold us when they couldn't climb up in it any longer, and we typically only drive it when there's a reason to. I just do not understand Cult Of The Big Truck.
Clive Thompson
Yep yep -- they stopped selling them because they could make more money selling the bloated, jacked-up models
Kit Rhett Aultman
@clive Oh, absolutely.
Clive Thompson
I suspect there are a ton of subterranean issues, logistical economic and psychological, going on with Big Trucks today
allrite
@thomasfuchs @clive Also in times past "travel trailers" used to be a lot smaller. As a family of five we used to tow our caravan with a regular sedan.
Peter Brown
@thomasfuchs @clive less safe? Yes, cars were. And cars nowadays are subject to very tight safety regulations.
But anything over 1 1/2 tons is exempt from all these regulations, so in fact they are less safe nowadays. They do not need to be crash tested, they have no crumple zones, and they are more prone to rolling over in a smash.
They not only kill cyclists and pedestrians with greater frequency because they can fall underneath the vehicle, but they also kill their users when they roll over.
Clive Thompson
@vfrmedia @autumn @thomasfuchs
Good point
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
Most of Europe is left hand drive, its only UK and IE which use right hand drive vehicles - the problem is the USA subsidiaries of European car manufacturers don't want to give up the profits they make by selling larger vehicles (for the same reasons, superminis are uncommon in USA even though I've read a lot of Americans saying they would drive one if they could get one)
Clive Thompson
Yeah, agreed -- as @thomasfuchs pointed out, if you need to haul a really big trailer today, you definitely need a heavy and powerful truck ... a smaller one won't do!
My point was based in my suspicion -- admittedly absent any data, though some folks in the thread later pointed to some -- that quite a few of the bigger trucks one sees on the roads, particularly in the suburbs, are rarely/never hauling anything 😅
Phil Baker :fedora: :freebsd:
@mlanger @clive I don't think the @clive is criticizing those who choose a correctly-sized tool for the job. It's just that many truck drivers don't have such requirements. It's cosplay. Kind of like the industrial oven craze in kitchens a few years back.
I used to own a 2000 Chevy Silverado, which is closer in size to the current Chevy Colorado. Probably all that most suburban folks need.
Maria Langer | 📝 🎬 ⚒️🛥️
For me, it’s about how much weight my truck can handle safely on long hauls. 2 full pallets of Pergo in the bed? 3600+ pounds of truck camper thousands of miles? Towing 15,000 pounds? I don’t care how physically large my truck is as long as it can do the job I need it to do. Today’s small trucks can’t.
But yes, most people don’t NEED a truck that can do these things. Please don’t criticize the people who do.
I’m just lucky it’s not my only vehicle. It’s a bitch to park.
Clive Thompson
@autumn @vfrmedia @thomasfuchs
Yeah -- when I'm on the road doing some reporting and rent a car, they always try to upsell me to a big SUV but I don't even want to drive something that big
I don't feel like I have the experience -- muscle-memory and proprioception -- to drive it safely; I'm used much smaller cars ... I'd be dangerous behind the wheel
autumn ☀️ waiting for summer
@clive @vfrmedia @thomasfuchs agreed! i only really drive on the freeway; my partner is much better at handling the smaller streets and backing it into impossible spots. 😅
Luke Kanies
@thomasfuchs @clive @philbaker1 @mlanger I wish America still respected the minivan. We often rent them, and they’re so great, especially compared to SUVs. More space, more practical, easy for the older people in our lives ito get in and out of.
Because I am me, I just want a souped up version. :)
sidereal
@vfrmedia @clive @autumn @thomasfuchs Yes, also right hand drive vehicles are often legal and not exactly common, but not unheard of in some areas here (around where I live, mostly Japanese domestic imports)
And, let me tell you, if you want a great light truck, you could do a lot worse than a JDM kei truck
sidereal
@thomasfuchs @vfrmedia @clive @autumn Oh man I figured "kei truck towing" would be a great image search, and I was not disappointed
It's true, they're not exactly dual-wheel F150's
Clive Thompson
@thomasfuchs @sidereal @vfrmedia @autumn
Yeah — I mean you could do light towing, but nothing really big
Clive Thompson
@vfrmedia @autumn @sidereal @thomasfuchs
True!
the wee truck would probably most just be better for lots of yard and farm work, ie schlepping stuff around
Clive Thompson
@autumn @thomasfuchs @vfrmedia @lkanies @sidereal
Damn, that’s a conundrum
I would’ve thought by now, with the market for golf carts being as big as it was, there would’ve been some model that offered light towing
Luke Kanies
@clive @vfrmedia @autumn @sidereal @thomasfuchs I’m trying to solve something a lot like this for my parents - they live in a community that often uses golf carts, and they need to do super light towing for gardening.
Most golf carts seem very old tech. But I have not found a modern equivalent that also tows. Those tiny electric cars, like the Wink Sprout, look great, but don’t quite fit for them.
Martin Kelly
@thomasfuchs @clive Hmm. my parents have a ridiculous 6 berth travel trailer with a bathroom. which they tow to various shows with an audi a6 quite handily. so unless there is something very unusual about you that means you need a trailer that an estate can’t handle, i’m fairly confident saying that is simply not true
Luke Kanies
@clive @autumn @thomasfuchs @vfrmedia @sidereal some do. But the golf carts just all seem kinda crappy for the price. 50% more expensive than a Sprout, but almost no features, low quality materials everywhere, basically disposable if something goes wrong.
Clive Thompson
@autumn @thomasfuchs @vfrmedia @lkanies @sidereal
Yep
It’s mildly related to the difficulty of electrifying planes of any significant size
A fuel-filled tank gets lighter as the fuel is burned during the flight, which is precisely what you want — ie as fuel depletes, you need marginally less and less of it because the plane is lighter and lighter
But a battery is the same weight whether it’s charged or dead
Clive Thompson
@phil_stevens @thomasfuchs @nyquildotorg @lkanies @vfrmedia @sidereal @autumn
With a very ultralight, one-seater nearly-glider-class plane that might be of use!
Phil Stevens :tinoflag:
@clive @thomasfuchs @nyquildotorg @lkanies @vfrmedia @sidereal @autumn Hear me out here...entire top surface of the plane is PV. Yes, it won't charge at the same rate that motors are using power (especially takeoff and climbing), but at high-altitude cruise it's in the ballpark. A range extender for daytime flights.
Clive Thompson
@thomasfuchs @nyquildotorg @lkanies @vfrmedia @sidereal @autumn
😂
Jer Warren
@thomasfuchs @clive @autumn @vfrmedia @lkanies @sidereal picking up more batteries with hooks like mail on a train
Clive Thompson
@autumn @thomasfuchs @slimdave
Yeah true
And more to the point, they probably wouldn’t be as profitable – wouldn’t have the margins of the high-end SUVs and trucks — so no auto maker is going to bother making them
David Aldridge
@clive @autumn @thomasfuchs It's interesting as an example of "why things don't happen even though they seem to be a good idea". Smaller euro-style light trucks might not sell in the volumes needed to support a dedicated manufacture or assembly plant, so the US can't have them at all.
Clive Thompson
@slimdave @autumn @thomasfuchs
I had no idea about that tax!!
David Aldridge
@clive @autumn @thomasfuchs They would have to manufacture or assemble in the US to avoid the 25% Chicken Tax, though.
CelloMom On Cars
My advice:
BUY the thing you use every day.
RENT the thing you need once a year, and then rent one that's up to the job.
You'll spend less, and have more fun.
Luke Kanies
@clive @thomasfuchs I could not find the source data, but:
“Survey data from vehicle research firm Strategic Vision shows a third of today’s pickup owners rarely or never use their truck for hauling, while two-thirds rarely or never use it for towing.”
https://www.axios.com/2023/01/23/pickup-trucks-f150-size-weight-safety
Yorgus (OWM for Harris/Walz)
@clive @thomasfuchs
My BIL drove a 4x4 truck to work every day (about 1 mile). SIL drove a 4x4 SUV to scoot around town. Oldest child drove a 4x4 SUV to school (also about one mile). Her brother drove a 4x4 truck to the SAME SCHOOL. This was in Mesa, AZ where roads are flat and it snows about once every 10 years.
David Aldridge
@thomasfuchs @clive @autumn Yes, extending the Gas Guzzler tax beyond passenger cars, which are pretty much a dying segment now, would be a good step.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Tax_Act#Gas_Guzzler_Tax
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