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1. Embed this notice
   NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 05:31:59 JST NEETzsche

   • lainy
   • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

   We need a visibility rating between unlisted and private that doesn’t show up on any timelines at all but can be viewable on your profile by anybody.

   This would be used for anti-hellthreading purposes. Right now, my fork of Soapbox marks all replies as unlisted so that if a hellthread emerges, it doesn’t clog up everybody’s public timelines with garbage. But unlisted still shows up on personal timelines, like if you follow one of us.

   Having a visibility between that doesn’t show up in any timelines at all but also isn’t exactly hidden could prove useful as an anti-hellthreading method. This is meant as brainstorming

   cc @hj @lain

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 05:52:38 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain scopes are shit. I would rather have an MRF or a setting so that hellthreads (posts that have more than N mentions) do not show up on timelines but still are accessible.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:18:10 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I kind of agree. As I was writing that I was thinking of something entirely orthogonal to both scopes and MRFs: flags. Think flags that do this:

     • Display only to followers
     • Display on federated timelines
     • Display on local timeline
     • Display in follower feeds
     • Display in profile feed

     Would give the user pretty granular control as to where things show up. It would also require a lot of restructuring and I’m not sure it’s worth it. But since it’s brainstorming, we can just make shit up and see what sticks.

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:35:37 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain there might be a bit of confusion from UX/UI standpoint - how's "display only to followers" different from "followers only scope" and why are there different settings?
     
     From security/privacy standpoint it's bullshit because every software has to support it properly, and by default everything will not since it's a new thing. And our experience in this field shows that only way to ensure privacy is to break compatibility (by changing the AP type, essentially), and as you can see Pleroma Chats got jack shit support from other server software (honorable mention - fork of Pleroma, creatively called Akkoma, removed support for them entirely).
     
     We can have "suggest" flags, that can be used to "hint" software to display a post in some different way (collapse by default, display attachments in certain way, suggest that "subject line" is used as a CW, etc), for stuff that we don't necessarily care that other side might display it incorrectly.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:40:00 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Yeah, like I said, it would require a lot of restructuring and I’m not sure it’s worth the effort. The subtle difference between “display only to followers” with the option to include/exclude it from your own personal timeline as well and the “followers only scope” is not self-evident to you, and you’re a smart guy. What about some normie who shows up and has no idea what the fediverse is? It might be too much. Choice paralysis, subtle distinctions that usually don’t make a lick of difference to a real person.

     And consider the goal of the OP: people should be able to be in a hellthread without subjecting everybody who follows them to said hellthread, and without the user having to really think about it. I’ll rub my chin on this more.

     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:40:35 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain i also want to add that "adding new scope" is a bit difficult, because scopes literally do not exist on AP level, it's a mastodonism that only really exists in MastoAPI, i.e. backend-to-frontend communication. In reality scope determines and is determined by whom post is addressed, i.e. what to/cc fields are. I really don't know details but I assume that whether post is public or unlisted is determined whether instance's global inbox is on cc list or not, or something along these lines.
     
     I don't know if it's possible to add attributes/metadata to activities though, i sure fucking hope it's possible, but with API you never know. Last time it went something like this
     (from discussion on adding detection if server supports chats)
     >won't sever respond with 400 Bad Request if it receives an activity it doesn't understand?
     <no, by standard it has to respond with 200 and just don't say anything
     Sexy Moon and NEETzsche like this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:47:06 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     The way scope works with MastoAPI is partly in the BE and partly in the FE. When you hit certain endpoints, like the local timeline endpoint, it only returns ones for your instance, and it filters them for ones that are listed as public before the FE even sees it. If we did add another scope, it would have to be like that.

     Also, you can add new metadata to AP. It’s one of the big advantages of it, and it’s also how I added a url field to PleromaBE’s scrobble endpoint. To no small extent AP is a non-standard that really only has guidelines for the federation part, but the rest is freeform JSON. It’s why Audio documents can link to literal Audio files or just a bunch of metadata about those audio files, and that metadata can be shaped however you want it to be shaped.

     In Funkwhale’s Audio “document” shape, the url field is an array that links to both webpages about the track and audio files of the track itself. It literally does both.

     In my implementation of PleromaBE’s url field it’s just a string that links to an article.

     But both are valid. Both are possible. And for this reason, I considered making the url field on this end just an array with a single element in it, but decided against it because the examples the official documentation give are that it can be either a single string, an array of strings, an object with subfields, or an array of strings/objects with subfields.

     It can be anything. Once you get the shape of the JSON blobs right for the purpose of federating, AP is the Wild West as far as standards are concerned. So not only are you allowed to make shit up on the fly, you basically have to.

   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 06:50:10 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/merge_requests/3977 Here’s how I added url fields. It’s deployed on iddqd.social and breastmilk.club. It has also been merged into Rebased, a fork of PleromaBE.

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:22:35 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain >but the rest is freeform JSON
     
     well yes, but we still have to make it at least somewhat future-proof and negotiate compatibility with other services, or else we'll end up with shit like mastodon scopes or misskey's is_cat.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:29:31 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @lain Somewhat future-proof, sure, but we shouldn't construe this to mean that we need to conform to the peculiarities of Funkwhale Audio documents or whatever else. We should just keep the shape relatively sane, and so far, we have. With or without my `url` field.
     
     You shouldn't let yourself get subordinated too quickly.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:43:28 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain naturally, but the point is that scopes are broken (followers-only replies don't work as expected, the "unlisted" is quite ambigious, and DMs are somewhat dubious), and adding more scope-like features (that are guaranteed to be broken due to how fediverse works) doesn't make it any better.
     
     My approach is to avoid altering federation for as long as it is possible and if it is not - make tiniest but extendable changes possible, so that we don't need to change protocol again, and just stick to conventions.
     
     Hiding hellthread posts in timelines doesn't even need federation, it's could be just a filter for timeline. Backend filters (or just PleromaFE UI for them) is something we should do anyway.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:43:51 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @lain I think you're right about a new scope. Scopes are too flawed as is and adding a new one won't be supported for the stated purpose. It won't work.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:48:55 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @lain I'm less averse to adding to federation than you as long as we're adding information and not removing it. Example: most Pleroma instances ingest the scrobbles without the url field just fine, and so backwards compatibility will work just fine. But if I were to do something like put the title, album, artist fields into a "track" object it would, and so I'm averse.
     
     In this case, adding a new scope will create undefined behavior in out of date Pleroma instances and Mastodon instances and you've convinced me that I should not pursue this avenue
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:51:37 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain a bit out of topic but I would really like to see scribbles support for stuff that isn't music, it could be a nice way to advertise that some user is live streaming or playing some game. Need to brainstorm it a bit.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 08:59:13 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj @lain I’ve considered this too. I considered adding an action field that lets you set it to listen, watch, play (for games), etc, but that legitimately does get into the realm of conflation and wackiness.

     Worse yet, the ActivityStream vocabulary has Watch and Listen actions, but no Play action or Game document type. So in order to do this in a “sane” fashion we might need to just make up our own.

     In the case of games, I would also add an /extend/ type endpoint that ingests a flake id or something and just adds to the length, since you can play a game for five minutes or five hours, depending on the whim of the user. But that would need to be federated like an edited post for it to mean anything.

     This tangent leads to a lot of compelling design questions. For now, I’m going to sleep on it until my outstanding PRs resolve (get closed, get merged) and maybe experiment on my fork. If you want to check out what I’ve done unilaterally so far, get on breastmilk.club

     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:07:14 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain i'd make an "OngoingActivity" or "Presence" that pretty much lets you put anything into it as well as url and expiration time.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:08:07 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @hj Timelines don't necessarily correspond to visibility levels, and activitypub itself has no visibility levels at all, so they are inferred by the addressing. I don't see how to express "show this only in a user's timeline" in actvitypub. I don't think visibility levels are the right solution for the hellthread issue.
     NEETzsche and narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:17:56 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     We go into this in detail in the rest of the thread. HJ convinced me I was wrong to explore this path.

     lainy likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:18:55 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Do you think splitting them into different kinds of documents (Audio, Video, etc) and then from there into actions against those documents (Listen, Watch, etc) was a design mistake that we should forsake?

   • Embed this notice
     Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:24:30 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj I think the simpler solution is to replace scopes with flags (may need to add a flag or two like "display to anyone with url", then default state is "display to nobody"), then just new profiles come with a set of default flag groups that they can use that have all the names and behaviours of the current scopes.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:24:32 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Machismo
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I recommended flags a bit further down in this thread, actually. I think it would have been smart if we did it at the outset, but it would require coordination on the part of too many maintainers to be realistic. Think trying to make flags compatible with Mastodon and Misskey, and also backward compatible with older version of Pleroma, as a thought experiment to see why me and HJ are thinking it might not be a wise attempt.

   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:39:55 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Machismo
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     If I could seriously start over I’d change quite a bit tbh. But then again I’m sure that could be said for it all. So many design choices are dealt with more than they are fully agreed-upon, especially as the years roll by. Knowing when to pull the plug on older tech, including older software, is more art than science. Should we still be using IRC, for example? Just deal with the lack of avatars and rely on copes like NickServs and bouncers? You’d be surprised how many people insist, yes, we should do exactly that.

     Me personally, I’m not entirely sold on abandoning AP yet.

   • Embed this notice
     Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:39:56 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @hj @lain Just write AP2.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:42:08 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain I don't think it's a mistake but rather the "scrobble" usecase is misuse of them. Say you have a "Video" activity, and you have actions against that activity - "Watch", "Rate" - makes sense that you can send a watch or rate so remote server can adjust rating and viewcount accordingly, the "scrobble" usecase is more of a side-effect - since you know that user sent a "watch" you can show what latest video they've seen, same with rating.
     
     Now you're taking this side-effect and making it a "main purpose" and referencing documents that are not even on the network, say you send a "scrobble", i.e. "Watch" for a youtube video or some brand new video platform that competes with youtube (that is not federated). The side-effect remains (you can show the last watched video in the UI) but main purpose becomes invalid, not only it makes no sense from AP perspective to "Watch" nonexistent entities (think of it as of "Like" for nonexistent post) but it also can be a burden on servers, i.e. if server IS configured to track "Watch"es, it could as well behave like this
     >oh i got a "Watch" for a youtube.com/watch?=rickroll
     >i'm not aware of that video, let's query youtube.com instance
     >oh i got invalid response uwu i guess we'll see next time
     
     So to avoid confusion and spamming, in my opinion this "scrobbling" thing should instead be completely free-form and user-generated and purpose-built around the UI (showing a second line under user's name/handle). We'll have something that isn't referencing anything that's supposed to be on the network (it's an "original" document like ubiquitous "Note") and we are not relying on the side-effect.
     
     Bonus points for being able to re-use existing APIs and adding an option to "post" as a "ongoing activity" from PleromaFE as well as exposing it as an oauth scope, so that i.e. you could authorize Steam/Discord/ListenBrainz/whatever to "post" this presence for you but not have access to regular posting nor anything else. Everything would be better than current esoteric knowledge of "using a script for importing your scrobbles from lastfm automatically"
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     anime graf mays ?️? (graf@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:47:09 JST anime graf mays ?️?

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain scribbles are gay and their implementation in pleroma is akin to early 2000s nobodies spamming channels with information about music they are listening to
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
     NEETzsche repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:47:36 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     See that’s the thing, the specifications I have read seem to suggest that the way it’s being used is more or less correct. In the examples provided in ActivityStream’s vocabulary, the url field could be any number of things, and in the case of Audio and Video documents, could literally just be audio/video files, not an activity, and then when the rubber hit the road for Funkwhale, it ended up being used to link to both audio files and to webpages about the track. I legitimately think this is basically the intended use of it.

     That being said, making a document type entirely our own could have a lot of benefits, most notably being able to define it whole cloth, and sidestep this entire debate. You’ve persuaded me this could be wise.

     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:48:02 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • anime graf mays ?️?
     • lainy
     @graf @NEETzsche @lain agree, and that's the reason they are (still) deprecated. Well, apart from the "gay" aspect of it.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 18:51:39 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain there are intransitive activities in the spec, there are examples of watching a video
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:00:39 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     And listening to audio files. It says you listened to the object. Then if you read other parts of the same spec the object isn’t just necessarily a media file. I don’t think it’s some ridiculous reach to say you can make the object a bunch of metadata about a track or video without linking to a literal audio or video file.

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:08:28 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon my instinct tells me that "object" here means object on the network, and URL is just a way to identify an object, since there is no universal way to refer to an object apart from an URL, and it's most likely expected that URL is something instances can "recognize", i.e. "instance.fedi/posts/1" is a post on that server and that server can respond with its data.
     
     >hey instance.fedi can you tell me about instance.fedi/posts/1
     <sure fam, here's a json
     
     >hey funkwhale.fedi can you tell me about funkwhale.fedi/audio/rickroll.mp3
     <sure fam here's a json
     
     >hey legit.mp3forfree.ru can you tell me about legit.mp3forfree.ru/downloads/sandman.mp3
     <what :what:
     
     I might be wrong but I think that's the intention here.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:15:17 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain I don't see an obvious "reference to a song" AP or AS object so I Guess define another vocabulary for that, or use an https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#IntransitiveActivity and use indieweb microformat to reference the song or video
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:19:51 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     The object isn’t necessarily a URL, is the thing. It seems to be open-ended by design as to what the object is. Some uses of object include just metadata about the object, as in the case of Example 10. I don’t think we’re misusing the Listen action. I’m not seeing any reason to believe we are.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:22:16 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj these are all defined in the spec. you can make new object types if you want but you should use an existing one if it makes sense. there are indirect types like Page and Document for referring to a URL if the thing you're playing has one. I am annoyed that the specs don't address the incredibly common case of "playing a named song on your hard drive that you don't have a URL to"
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:25:55 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I don’t think they have to. It’s not a misuse to just create an object that’s a bunch of metadata about the document, shaped how you like. Which is what was done. And, most importantly, it works. Everybody is getting hung up on this idea that an Audio document absolutely must be a literal Audio file or bust, and it, just, doesn’t. Nowhere in the spec does it say or even suggest that. In fact, the spec taken in its totality suggests the opposite.

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:31:43 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @Moon @NEETzsche @lain you have its file:///C/Documents%20and%Settings/John/My%20Documents/Downloads/sandman.mp3 :trollface:
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:33:40 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj example 10 doesn't define any additional fields, if you extend a type. I am reading 4.1 here and my understanding is that defining your type context if you extend a type is a "must" condition
     
     https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#object
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:37:07 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     That just says you need to write down what your extension is, though, and make a rather minimal addendum to the shape of the object. I’m willing to do that personally if you really insist.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:37:38 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj thank you, that is all I am asking.
     NEETzsche likes this.
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      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:42:29 JST 

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain >I assume that whether post is public or unlisted is determined whether instance's global inbox is on cc list or not
     It's a hardcoded value of "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public". If it's in `to`, the post is public, if `cc`, it's unlisted.
     t. wrote an MRF to convert followers-only posts to public scope to take the piss on lockfags
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:44:06 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     @mint @NEETzsche @lain I guess I should add your instances to quarantine then.
   • Embed this notice
     Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:45:23 JST Machismo

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @mint @lain @NEETzsche @hj Extremely based
      likes this.
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      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:48:35 JST 

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain This will impact DMs which are entirely non-ambiguous (have an explicitly defined list of recepients) and thus aren't manged in any capacity. You have nothing to fear if your instance doesn't have active lockfags anyway.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 19:59:04 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     @mint @NEETzsche @lain it does.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 20:22:09 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     And now, for my fee: if I actually go through the trouble of writing up this thousand word document telling people what title, album, artist, and length mean and put in a PR that makes it reference that document in the way this AS spec likes, the PleromaBE maintainers will take it and undeprecate scrobbles. It will happen pretty unceremoniously and without a protracted code review process. It will not be subjected to nitpicky, spurious rejection. “It works” will be the final argument on the topic. The only valid reasons to reject it will be something an external actor can break with it, in a way that impacts end users; you’ll need to make it blow up or find a security hole that lets them see/do things they shouldn’t or something like that. This standard will trump everybody’s style guides and linters.

     I’m pretty staunch on this being a non-issue. As it’s currently implemented, there are no known bugs that an end user will ever have to deal with, and doing this rigmarole to conform to this spec adds no new features. This means it’s unimportant, from an objective standpoint. Because I’m not getting paid, I value my time, and I’m not motivated by backend nitpicking, the only end this serves to me is a social one: assuaging concerns I disagree with in the first place. Will going through this trouble actually accomplish that, @hj ?

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 20:29:23 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon I'd rather have it free-form than having one billion fields tbh. As for whether it's going to accomplish or not is up to dev community, we don't like it when one single person decides and forces it upon others. Personally i'm ok with undeprecating it, and as it stands right now it's in status quo due to attention to it.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 20:35:20 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I agree. I like it being freeform. I don’t care about the AS spec’s demand of writing these treatises on every little field. I think that as long as it’s kept relatively sane (no is_cat fields in our Audio documents), and we have, then there’s no sleep worth losing over it.

     I actually want to apologize, but only sort of. On the one hand, I’m aware that I’m being kind of difficult here, but on the other hand, I really can’t stress enough how much I think this is a silly waste of time. I don’t think the people insisting on all this discussion and committee are evil, I just think they’re wrong-headed. I think they’re viewing things from an academic, dare I say it, spergy, angle, as opposed to a business-minded angle that’s about “getting shit done,” which is where I lean. So I’m sorry for being difficult yet in other ways I’m also not.

     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 20:36:15 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Does it do anything with unlisted posts or just private ones?

      likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 20:52:23 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @Moon @NEETzsche @hj we're not following that anyway. I think the Listen type is perfectly fine for scrobbling, it does exactly what it is supposed to mean, you're listening to some kind of object. Those don't have to be AP style json objects with an ID. Of all the questionable uses of AP vocabulary, this is the least one.
     
     There's a separate question, I think for now the Listen activity is just used to set the 'currently listening to' field in a user, right? If so, these activities could be transient, without an ID and wouldn't be persisted to any serve, which would make them easier to distinguish from potential long-lived activities that a hypothetical music server might have.
     Sexy Moon, NEETzsche and feld like this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:00:21 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I’d like to create a view of someone’s scrobble history at one point, which in turn merits storing them. It’s also how the endpoint appears to be intended for use. How amenable to this are you?

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:02:39 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon i don't think pleroma should be used as a "scrobbling" service, there's already listenbrainz for that, making it more and more focused on music would end up creating demand for statistics "yearly reports" etc. which are really outside of scope of the project.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:10:18 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     I think the scope of the project is “federated social media” in a very broad sense. I think the limits of the feature richness should be bounded by how many people want to bother implementing. I think we should aim to put Twitter and Facebook to shame in terms of feature-richness, and in a lot of ways we’ve accomplished that as-is, but I think we should be doubling down on it. I think that removing features should be reserved for cases where they actively create problems, real ones, ones that no sane person could characterize as “academic.”

     I’m currently working on a fork of Rebased, which is in turn a fork of Pleroma. However, if we’re at an impasse on this topic because of a fundamental philosophical difference on what this ultimately ought to be, I’m likely going to formalize my fork instead of just it being my personal fork.

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:19:41 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon we're already putting twitter and facebook in feature-richness, Misskey and its forks exist. I don't think it's a good idea to centralize literally everything in one software. That being said, I think storing scrobbles forever or having them transient should be up to admin's choice, all of the statistics can be a separate service, much like people have things that aggregate most used emoji by a user for misskey.
     
     I however still insist it to be free-form. Music is nice but I'd love to see "i'm livestreaming" or "join me in tf2" more persistent in timeline. I'd love to make a "rich presence" with content "hop on mumble fags im drunk" too.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:23:27 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Me:

     I think we should aim to put Twitter and Facebook to shame in terms of feature-richness, and in a lot of ways we’ve accomplished that as-is, but I think we should be doubling down on it.

     You:

     we’re already putting twitter and facebook in feature-richness, Misskey and its forks exist.

     Do you disagree that we should be doubling down though? :grilling:

     I however still insist it to be free-form. Music is nice but I’d love to see “i’m livestreaming” or “join me in tf2” more persistent in timeline. I’d love to make a “rich presence” with content “hop on mumble fags im drunk” too.

     I agree with this and would love to implement it. Merge my PRs and I’ll start doing so. :anintellectual:

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:32:18 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon >Do you disagree that we should be doubling down though?
     My point is that if you want to shove as many fun features regardless of quality and usability and maintenance cost, you should do it on MissKey. I don't want to compete with misskey in sheer numbers of features is what I'm saying. I'd rather have Pleroma as a balance between stability and fun.
     
     Overall, Fediverse as a network puts those to shame in feature richness, and misskey puts them to shame in feature richness localized in one software project. And as you can see, number of features isn't really a factor outside of asian cultures.
     
     
     >I agree with this and would love to implement it. Merge my PRs and I’ll start doing so.
     I merged some of your MRs already. It's a "fun" feature and not incredibly important, i could wait for years for it to get implemented. Your demands won't work here.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 21:37:55 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     >regardless of quality and usability and maintenance cost
     
     Give me real problems in terms of any of these things and, as I have shown, I will work with you on them. This is because I want to make things better.
     
     >I merged some of your MRs already. It's a "fun" feature and not incredibly important, i could wait for years for it to get implemented. Your demands won't work here.
     
     This isn't a demand so much as it is a statement. I will continue making more things if you put in the things I already made. I have to do it piecemeal because that's just how submitting MRs works when you're not the project maintainer. Let's start here:
     
     https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/merge_requests/3977/
     
     Here's how to do a code review:
     
     1. Look at the point of the MR. Do you agree with it? If not, state why. If it's irreconcilable, click close.
     2. Look at the diffs. Is there an issue with them? If not, state why. If it's irredeemably bad, click close.
     3. If you've made it this far, click merge.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 22:26:46 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon >Give me real problems in terms of any of these things and, as I have shown, I will work with you on them. This is because I want to make things better.
     
     Here:
     - Having Listen activity with just URLs pointing to outside of network or nonsensical data is tethering on being spam (same as Likes on nonexistent statuses), it also can conflict with other software that might want to use Listen for counting listens on actual Audio documents.
     - url field according to https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-url is meant for url pointing representation of object, so for a Listen activity it would mean url should point towards the representation of listen activity itself, not what has been listened to.
     - if you want to link towards what is actually being listened to you should use "target" field instead, with description of Link object https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-link and add rel=['external', 'nofollow'] for arbitrary data to suggest servers not query it.
     
     Additionally, for MR about including scrobbles in user profile:
     - Profiles are typically cached and mostly static (people don't change their bios/avatars several times during day unless they are testing/actively adjusting things which are rare), scrobbles are transient and dynamic and can happen dozen times per day, so having them in user profiles will either lead to removing/reducing the cache or showing outdated scrobbles due to cache. We have /relationships endpoint for fetching non-cached data like following/blocked/etc statuses, so either we should extend that or keep it a separate endpoint as it is now. Ideally scrobbles should just be just part of the timeline and/or websocket stream (like deletes).
     
     >Here's how to do a code review:
     Can you funking stop patronizing and trying to teach people how to do things?
     
     Here's how I do merge request reviews :bigband:
     
     0. Check if it is a spam or outright malicious/troll MR like "remove entire codebase because it stinks" and if so, close it outright.
     1. Look at the point of the MR. Do you agree with it? If not, state why. Wait for response.
     1.1. Estimate maintenance and responsibility costs and decide if you're willing to take the risk as a maintainer. If not, have someone else to take care of it if possible.
     1.2. Check whether MR affects any other usecases and if it needs to be made configurable and what default should be if so.
     2. Look at the diffs. Are they good? If not, state why. If it's irredeemably bad, say so.
     2.1. Decide if some of the changes you might want are too difficult/complex for author and too easy for yourself to quickly implement, or implement in future.
     3. Test MR locally, if there are any serious issues and design flaws, mention them.
     3.1. Estimate risk if there are minor flaws and take responsibility for fixing them.
     4. Dogfood MR for some time and if everything is relatively stable and usable, and all the discussions/issues are resolved hit merge.
     5. ???????
     6. PROFIT!!!
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 22:47:13 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Having Listen activity with just URLs pointing to outside of network or nonsensical data is tethering on being spam (same as Likes on nonexistent statuses), it also can conflict with other software that might want to use Listen for counting listens on actual Audio documents.

     It’s literally in the spec that this is how it should work. It’s not spam anymore than anything else is. These are actual Audio documents. The idea that the Audio document must link to a literal audio file has already been hashed out and the conclusion is that it doesn’t. I’m not discussing this further.

     url field according to https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-url is meant for url pointing representation of object, so for a Listen activity it would mean url should point towards the representation of listen activity itself, not what has been listened to.

     See attachment #1. The url points to the song’s audio file or, in most cases when the rubber hits the road, page. Maybe you could argue that it should be structured as a {"type": "Link", "href": "https://example.com/whatever/"} object, but that’s as far as this line of thought goes.

     if you want to link towards what is actually being listened to you should use “target” field instead, with description of Link object https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-link and add rel=[‘external’, ‘nofollow’] for arbitrary data to suggest servers not query it.

     If you want to link towards what is actually being listened to you put it in the url field. This isn’t just silly, it’s incorrect. You’re actively being wrong here. Are you going out of your way to be wrong here? Because at this point I think you are.

     Can you funking stop patronizing and trying to teach people how to do things?

     Can you fucking stop wasting my time with bullshit? This is what you’re doing here. This whole post was bullshit that is either outright wrong or entirely not actionable.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 22:47:40 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @lain @NEETzsche @hj I defer to your judgment on this
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:04:40 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     Right now I’m trying to get them to let Pleroma ingest a url field, so that the FE can then use it to link to things. My fork keeps it and displays it. Currently, it uses the favicon of the domain of the url, and if you click that favicon, it goes to the place. In this example, you’ll go to a Soundcloud page.

     However, currently, they’re giving me anti-reasons for not doing so, insisting that allowing users to submit whatever url they want is spam and that the use of Audio documents as someone else implemented them four years is wrong (it isn’t). I’m kind of losing patience because they’ve taken to being objectively wrong in the interest of not merging my shit lmfao

     These are such small, innocuous changes, and they literally can’t handle it. Imagine trying to implement something more complex than this.

   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:12:27 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     The problems listed here range from not real to outright incorrect. This is already implemented in Rebased, and as it stands Alex Gleason actively hates me for being too pushy on this topic.

     I’m done with code review past this point. As of this post, the API is supposed to ingest a url when given. Click merge to fix your repo or click close/ignore this to keep it broken.

   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:36:33 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon >These are actual Audio documents.
     There are no audio documents, if you are referencing an actual Audio document there should be a Create activity for it, if none can exist IMO you should use Link object instead.
     
     >The idea that the Audio document must link to a literal audio file has already been hashed out and the conclusion is that it doesn’t. I’m not discussing this further.
     I'm not saying it should reference a file, i'm saying it should reference whatever you want to reference in a proper way
     
     >It’s literally in the spec that this is how it should work. It’s not spam anymore than anything else is.
     URL should point to the activity/object itself (or rather representation of it). Target/Object should be what it is referencing. So like
     
     {
     "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
     "summary": "Sally listened to Megadeth - Hangar 18",
     "url": "https://instance.tld/objects/listens/1234", // <-- reference to Listen activity itself
     "type": "Listen",
     "actor": {
     "type": "Person",
     "name": "Sally"
     },
     "object": { // <-- reference to what was listened (could be "target" instead IMO)
     "type": "Link",
     "rel": ["external", "nofollow"],
     "href": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oU2xlViRQ"
     }
     }
     Much like
     {
     "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
     "summary": "Reprööting to post 1234",
     "url": "https://instance.tld/objects/posts/5678", // <-- reference to Announce activity itself
     "type": "Announce",
     "actor": {
     "type": "Person",
     "name": "Sally"
     },
     "object": "https://instance.tld/objects/posts/1234" // <-- reference to what is being Announced
     }
     >See attachment #1. The url points to the song’s audio file or, in most cases when the rubber hits the road, page.
     
     This is an Audio document, not a Listen activity. What are the semantics of this, you are "creating" an audio document for external resource and that somehow means you listened to it? What if I create several Audio documents pointing to same url because I kept listening to a song on repeat, how to distinguish between those "Audio documents" if they all point to same url?
     
     Yes, sure, it works with existing pleroma instances due to legacy but it's also a limiting factor why nobody else would want to support this broken format.
     
     >If you want to link towards what is actually being listened to you put it in the url field. This isn’t just silly, it’s incorrect. You’re actively being wrong here.
     
     1. If you are LISTENING to something it should be Listen activity/object, not an Audio document/object.
     2. url field is for pointing to representation of the object. It's says right there:
     >Identifies one or more links to representations of the object
     
     You are the one being incorrect here. If you REALLY insist on using Audio type then yes, url can refer to a youtube video, but Audio document ALONE doesn't mean a scrobble for it, and there's aforementioned issue of having multiple Audio documents pointing to same URL, otherwise you have multiple documents with same representation, and to actually implement a scrobble you'll need to ALSO make a Listen activity that references the Audio document, so:
     
     {
     "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
     "summary": "Sally created an "audio document" for scrobbling",
     "url": "https://instance.tld/objects/audio/B-oU2xlViRQ",
     "type": "Create",
     "actor": {
     "type": "Person",
     "name": "Sally"
     },
     "object": {
     "type": "Audio",
     "name": "Megadeth - Hangar 18 (youtube)",
     "url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oU2xlViRQ"
     }
     },
     {
     "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
     "summary": "Sally listened to Megadeth - Hangar 18 (youtube)",
     "url": "https://instance.tld/objects/listens/1234",
     "type": "Listen",
     "actor": {
     "type": "Person",
     "name": "Sally"
     },
     "object": "https://instance.tld/objects/audio/B-oU2xlViRQ"
     }
     >Can you fucking stop wasting my time with bullshit?
     Likewise. If you keep on saying "not actionable" and "outright wrong" instead of actually discussing you should lead your own project with an iron fist like the likes of gargron, gleason and floatingghost, people who know "for sure" right from wrong without discussion and not willing to concede.
     
     Your attitude is main reason why your BE MRs are "stuck" as almost no one on the backend wants to deal with you because you keep on saying things like "do it like this because doing it other way is objectively wrong".
     
     I know jack shit about ActivityPub and backend, you are forcing me to actually learn it and dig through AP docs. And since you're having a skill issue, I don't even care if you contribute further or not.
     
     Even my patience has Limits.
     I just can't leave this thing up
     to you any longer.
     
     I'll do the coding!
     You can just go home!
     image.png
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:41:47 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon >Alex Gleason actively hates me for being too pushy on this topic. That should tell you how objectively right this is.
     
     Only thing it tells me that I do still have some solidarity with Alex.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:42:51 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • teknomunk
     @teknomunk @NEETzsche @lain @Moon we have MRFs I guess, but i'm not sure if that's enough and how much they can do...
   • Embed this notice
     teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:42:54 JST teknomunk

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @NEETzsche @lain @Moon
     
     Alternatively, you can make the software support plugins thru a stable API, then the functionality can be maintained separately from the server core.
     
     I do understand that designing a useful API for such tasks is a non-trivial task.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:48:54 JST 

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj Unlisted is also converted to public. Bots are handled by separate policy which then turns them back into unlisted.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:50:22 JST 

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @hj @lain That was more of a side effect but the one I enjoy. Makes TWKN more chaotic.
   • Embed this notice
     zonk (nosleep@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Nov-2023 23:54:17 JST zonk

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @lain @hj @Moon i wonder where ive heard this type of deranged rhetoric before. oh wait: https://gleasonator.com/notice/AFaDmZuhU5HIdBBJ56
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:02:11 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • The Problem :verified_pink:
     @marine @NEETzsche @lain @Moon gladly, I've had enough already anyway.
   • Embed this notice
     The Problem :verified_pink: (marine@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:02:13 JST The Problem :verified_pink:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj @NEETzsche @lain @Moon shut the fuck up, Neet’s busy rn

   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:11:23 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj
     
     >Your attitude is main reason why your BE MRs are "stuck" as almost no one on the backend wants to deal with you because you keep on saying things like "do it like this because doing it other way is objectively wrong".
     
     Thanks for admitting it's personal and that the rest of your "reasons" are just thin pretexts to the contrary. That's all I needed to know. I won't bother in the future. Thread muted.
     
     @lain @Moon
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:12:01 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon thank you.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:14:17 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • 
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @mint lol my fork of soapbox makes all replies by default go to unlisted, not because I have any motivation to truly hide my posts, but out of a sense of politeness for everybody else. Just imagine if my hellthreads clogged up everybody's fucking timelines. You can clog up your own timeline though lol and it seems like that's all your mrf does
     
     @lain @hj
      likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 00:14:51 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     • zonk
     @nosleep lol cope
     
     @lain @hj @Moon
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     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 01:06:16 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • anime graf mays ?️?
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     • john paul grips

     @graf @NEETzsche @lain @hj @grips

     akin to early 2000s nobodies spamming channels with information about music they are listening to

     except that's fucking based

     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 14:05:03 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @NEETzsche @hj @Moon Yeah, the endpoint supports it. It's just that this endpoint hasn't been used by anyone for years, so I'm just trying to figure out what the actual feature is that is being built / kept / extended here.
     NEETzsche likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 16:08:48 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @lain it'd just be a view of the scrobble history, but they seem hellbent on not letting me move forward on anything relating to this so
     
     @hj @Moon
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 17:55:40 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • lainy
     @NEETzsche @lain @Moon you already have your scrobbles, we just don't want URLs in them because it will cause a collision between real Audio objects and ones we make up for sake of "scrobbles".