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   Parker Banks (parker@pl.psion.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:50:39 JST Parker Banks
   How do we fix the paganism/animism is cringe problem?
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:50:38 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @parker >How do we fix the paganism/animism is cringe problem?
     This is a good faith response that you might think is trolling, but I promise it's not. Stop promoting it as antichristian, or at least attack those who do. It's literally that easy. Pagans who are pro White and are at least neutral towards Christianity won't come across as cringe. When I first got into any of this scene, I only knew of the less cringe and more positive types and was rather ambivalent towards them. "Oh it's like Mormons I guess. Not my beliefs and I disagree with their spiritual views, but we can share similar goals". Exposure has changed my opinion, NAXALT of course notwithstanding. Just my $0.02, but I'm nothing if not honest.
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     Parker Banks (parker@pl.psion.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:55:37 JST Parker Banks

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     @Leaflord That's why I was thinking roadside shrines like the Japanese have. So that seeing a beautiful shrine to some nature spirit is just an ordinary thing that everyone sees as they go about their life, rather than being associated with a specific centre of worship, costumes, etc.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:55:38 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     But really though, it starts with removing the divide between the daily mundane and the spiritual. They should be woven into eachother and work off of eachother. This means making daily life more spiritual and making religious life more mundane.
     Unfortunately your average person is fucking worthless at this and you can only have them be blind retarded zealots, or directionless godless degenerates.
     The solution lies in a biospiritual balance.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:55:39 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to
     Give me two more weeks.
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     Parker Banks (parker@pl.psion.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:55:40 JST Parker Banks

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     @Leaflord Well get on with it already.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 06:55:41 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to
     Like every solution to every other problem, the first step is billions must die.
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     Parker Banks (parker@pl.psion.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 07:03:20 JST Parker Banks

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @BowsacNoodle Yeah, it's an honest question I think about often. And you're right that there's bigger priorities than getting into Pagan v. Christian hellthreads, that only strengthens peoples' existing beliefs anyways.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 07:10:24 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @parker Yeah and I really think it's an issue that ought to be addressed by civilized Wypipo on semi anonymous internet message boards, because that's where most of the 💩 slinging is and messages here honestly reverberate back to the real world (see the recent Palestine conflict). D&C is not helpful for White people when we already have some sizeable portion of our own racial kin that's anti European from indoctrination, and a sizeable portion that's been trained wrong on purpose:
     >"LET'S NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT RACE!" -Jarhead1968, sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 07:10:59 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @parker >not gay fedi religion fights every other week
     Every week? Rookie numbers.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 07:11:00 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @parker @BowsacNoodle people should be focusing on a singular cause and not gay fedi religion fights every other week
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     ?Hidden? (hidden@cawfee.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:27:20 JST ?Hidden?

     in reply to
     @parker You can't as long as a bunch of vapid idiots think it's a cool aesthetic. Just have to describe things in descriptive terms so that those who know will pick up on it and those who don't won't.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     Anime Wong (elliptica@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:38:22 JST Anime Wong

     in reply to

     • Mancow Muller ?
     @parker @cowanon I think there is a big misunderstanding with how modern people and Pagans view gods, which is very much in the way Christians view God, as distinct very important gods who were always watching you.
     
     I don't have time to go too deep into it here, but from what I've read pagans did not think this way. The most important gods for "pagans" wouldn't have been the big ones that we all know about, but lesser spirits associated with individuals, families, and the location they lived in, as these would be the ones average people believed were more likely to encounter.
     
     EDIT: In the US, a good way to look at it might be how Christians view angels and "guardian angels". For a larger cultural setting, look up the "Joplin butterfly people".
     
     Largely, paganism, animism, and pantheism are all roughly the same thing, which is another concept a lot of people miss. Zeus didn't control the sky, he was the sky. Nyx was night time (which is why she was shown in the top left in this Christian painting of the Hebrews fleeing Egypt).
     
     The problem with a codified doctrine for paganism then is that there never was one. Paganism was never rigidly organized in the same way that the Abrahamic religions were. What little we have of the Germanic religion was what Christian missionaries wrote down. Roman myths varied depending on who was telling them, the Japanese never had a consistent depiction of what Inari was supposed to be, and modern revivals of Eastern practices such as Caodaism are about as "authentic" as wiccan. Instead paganism was largely cultural, and without that culture, it's all but meaningless.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:38:22 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to

     • Mancow Muller ?
     • Anime Wong
     What has been observed is that the earliest relationships with gods and spirits did not come from a place of worship, but rather of transaction and mutual benefit.
     Especially among pragmatic peoples.
     Many spirits were seen as the equivalent of spiritual fauna, but even that isn't quite accurate. They were just part of the world, as opposed to the Abrahamic concept of a god beyond the world.
     This is perhaps the key difference in perception which leads to the difficulties in finding a middle ground between the two.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     Parker Banks (parker@pl.psion.co)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:38:23 JST Parker Banks

     in reply to

     • Mancow Muller ?
     @cowanon I mean, asking for a codified doctrine, what God(s) you worship, the source of their morality (good vs evil) is framing the discussion in a very Christian manner, very Thomas Aquinas-y.
     
     I assume that if you asked a Shinto, or an actual Pagan 1500 years ago what their doctrine was or the source of their morality, they'd be confused at the question.
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     Mancow Muller ? (cowanon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:38:24 JST Mancow Muller ?

     in reply to
     You can't.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 09:38:31 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to
     Yeah. Ambiguity in spirituality goes a long way. Rely more on people being in touch with it themselves rather than being told by an authority and/or given a guide.
     This cycles back to the biospiritual issue though. You can't have nice things like that if the peaple are base.
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 10:12:03 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     • SKracket
     >You had monk in Germanic territory rewriting biblical passages to take on a more saga-like feel.
     
     Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 10:12:04 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to

     • SKracket
     European Catholicism is just European mysticism/paganism with a veneer of Jesus on top.
     Part of that is because making the peoples of Europe accept Christianity required synthesis of concepts and subversion of genre to slip it into the pagan mindset.
     You had monk in Germanic territory rewriting biblical passages to take on a more saga-like feel.
     This is why you have poems like Muspilli, which combined a Christian eschatological core with pagan themes. I recall there also being a poem about Jesus being presented as a great warrior who would be wielding a spear to face off Satan in the end of days.
     In fact Revelation played a huge part in making the pagans sympathise with the religion, as it was a theme they all knew well. Great battles/struggles/destruction at the end of days followed by a rebirth of the world into a new age is an extremely ancient concept.
     The proselytizing monks had to get creative and make their faith wrap itself around established local beliefs. This is why pretty much every holiday has a pre-christian celebration underneath it.
     
     The Romantic movement was an attempt to push back against the rise of the machine men, but alas romanticism is lost on the grain peasant and thus the machine men came out on top. While we wish to believe that quality surpasses quantity, you will find that quantity has a quality of its own.
     The fundamental problem is one of blood and spirit, the solution to which is eschatological.
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     SKracket (skracket@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 10:12:06 JST SKracket

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     Chad effortpost incoming.
     Catholic Europe has lots of those roadside shrines, dedicated to saints of course. And lots of folklore and belief in other beings coexisted alongside that. What killed it was materielism, where man seperating himself from the cosmos and standing outside it, measuring it, cataloging it, manipulating it reduced it from being to object. The Romantic movement of the 1800's-1900's pushed back against materialism, and sought to reintegrate man but materialism was already becoming atheist materialism and man's consciousness got stuck. Seperated but unable to re integrate without a spiritual view of the cosmos and a correct understanding of God and what His desires are.
     Personally, I think that this problem is only going to be overcome at the individual level, each person must take responsibility for his own beliefs and not hadn over decision and understanding to an outside church or book.
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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:28:27 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to

     • SKracket
     Christianity didn't offer much different except essentially for a more encompassing buffer between man and his personal spiritual agency (which, granted, is something that is very necessary to small people as being responsible for their actions and the consequences thereof terrifies the masses)
     They both offered spiritual hygiene, although in different ways, but ultimately led to a smiliar place of spiritual fulfilment. I find it difficult to believe that there was no element of premeditation in presenting Jesus to pagans in a way that made him fit their ideals, but sure, we can let this one slide and call it an organic synthesis of ideas post-fact. This one cannot be denied as ultimately, there are a whole lot of pagan themes and traditional appropriations in european christianity. You simply cannot just sweep in and replace everything, it's always a give and take.
     Separating the physical from the metaphysical is dangerous grounds, as it leads to dualism and death-cult tier rejections of the material. One must understand that man isn't flesh and man isn't spirit. Man is both. Therefore, both aspects are important and must be treated as such.
     I find it silly to sacrifice the material for a promise of the immaterial.
     The ascetic is as misguided as the hedonist (unless it is their place to be such)
     
     My idea of man's destiny and why we are here? Is it not enough to know that we are here and to live? When/if your time comes, you will do what must be done and fulfil your role if you have one, if there is no role then you make of it what you will. It's really not that deep, and seeking meaning because agency is scary is the exact reason we have dogmatic religions. It really keeps the grain farmers from going insane/depressed.
     
     Absurdism vs Nihilism if you want to get into philosophycel faggotry.
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     SKracket (skracket@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:28:28 JST SKracket

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     There's a Russian philosopher from the early-mid 1900's, Nikolai Berdyayev who says somewhere that there's never been a true Christian society, that the family/patriarchal/monarchal view etc are all pagan in origin and have yet to be transfigured into a true Christian form.
     I don't think that's the right understanding of how Christianity became the religion of europe, Christ offers something pagan religion can't, and is doesn't take synthesis of concepts and subversion of genre to show that. Not to mention those are all modern concepts you are projecting backwards, and the people of the time certainly didn't think in those terms.
     Quality loses to quantity every time, here, in the materiel plane. It doesn't lose in the higher planes, since almost by definition quanity cannot access the higher planes.
     So what's your idea of man's destiny and why we are here?
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:55:16 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Leaf Lord
     • SKracket

     Yeah but which Biblical passages in particular do you think were edited to adapt Christianity to paganism?

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     Leaf Lord (leaflord@leafposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Nov-2023 11:55:17 JST Leaf Lord

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • SKracket
     Rather recontextualizing them to fit pagan sensibilities. There were some concepts that just didn't really fit well. This is why you got stuff like Jesus 1v1ing Satan during the Apocalypse.
     
     A good example of a difficult to swallow concept was Jesus dying on the cross. Evidenced by local pagans either feeling like his death is something they must avenge through arms (seen as an attack on their honour) or establishing crazy fanfictions about Jesus not actually dying and escaping to live in Japan. etc etc