Thorwegian ❄️
i obviously agree that innocent civilians in Gaza should not suffer.
and Israel always kills more people in Gaza than the other way around.
but
also
keep this in mind: the people of Gaza voted for a party (Hamas) whose explicit goal is to destroy all Jews.
a democratic election is what produced that.
of course the Jews are not going to like that.
Sir Nedwood - Sydney 🇦🇺
@thor @realcaseyrollins the opposite could also be said. 5.3 million Palestinians are not just going to go away. No matter how hard you push them up against the Egyptian border.
Thorwegian ❄️
@realcaseyrollins Hamas or not
Israel, no matter what you think of it, is not going away
we all know this
Hamas thinks it can make Israel go away. this is a fairytale.
given these circumstances, operate within them.
Thorwegian ❄️
@realcaseyrollins i don't get away with it when i make the wrong decision
maybe i should and therefore also the Gaza strip
Thorwegian ❄️
@realcaseyrollins that's a possibility
maybe they shouldn't have voted that way
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@thor IDK. The #UN seems to be edging closer and closer to supporting #Hamas. At least they were by the time last week rolled around (I stopped following everything closely after Saturday).
War is ugly and the West is lilly-livered.
realcaseyrollins ✝️
keep this in mind: the people of Gaza voted for a party (Hamas) whose explicit goal is to destroy all Jews.
a democratic election is what produced that.
This is outside of the bounds of the research I’ve done so far, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t that election happen in 2006? Even though the #Hamas charter was violent then, I have heard that a) #Hamas started oppressing the people as soon as they took power and b) there hasn’t been an election since.
So I’m not sure if the peoples’ minds have changed since 2006, but even if they have, #Hamas might force the people to pretend to agree with them regardless.
Thorwegian ❄️
a friend of mine said that if the Palestinians begin to love their own children more than they hate the Jews, there will be peace in the Middle East
whether you like it or not as an arab, the jews are in charge of the area. it's backed by the US. you are not going to defeat a world power.
ideally, as a muslim, the region should be ruled by Sharia laws. but i think the Hamas project is doomed to fail. too many people want it to fail. it's not going to happen.
iced depresso
iced depresso
Sexy Moon
iced depresso
Sexy Moon
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor I wouldn’t put it exactly that way. It would take a formal governmental body that isn’t a designated terror organization. The #WestBank has no government though, as far as I can tell, and #Gaza has #Hamas.
If a formal government existed at least there’d be formal communication channels with the #UN. But there are only paramilitary or terrorist groups and factions in the region, as far as I know.
Sir Nedwood - Sydney 🇦🇺
@thor @realcaseyrollins well true. The power does lie with Israel. They lack the will to enact it. Hamas has the will, but lacks the means. However if the tables were turned, I'm sure the political will would be reversed also.
Thorwegian ❄️
they're there
but in terms of realpolitik
they'd be gone if Israel decided on it.
just use one nuke... gone.
iced depresso
Toxic Darkest Sinner
:archlinux:
Sexy Moon
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @Moon @thor IDK why that’d be entirely unreasonable, #Europe especially loves Muslim immigrants.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@galena @icedquinn @thor I don’t think anyone here is saying that #Israel should target #Gaza citizens, but collateral damage is necessary to get rid of #Hamas since they use their citizens as human shields.
iced depresso
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LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena Even if that were the case (which it is not), would you support the local police killing everyone in a neighbourhood in order to take down one gang member?
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena No. Did they intentionally bomb facilities that didn’t have #Hamas targets in them?
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena The IDF knows the geographic coordinates of every UN facility in Gaza. They bomb them anyway. Do you think that one of the most technologically sophisticated militaries in the world is just incompetent?
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor @leftylabourtech @galena I mean, isn’t #Russia largely targeting the military infrastructure of #Ukraine? And #Ukraine’s military installations are not inextricably embedded into the country in the same way that #Hamas’ are in #Gaza. Apples and oranges comparison.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena Are they known for lying often about things like this?
I’m new to following #IDF claims but it’s been my impression that they rarely lie about things like this. Not to say that they haven’t before, but that they usually don’t.
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena Like they bombed two ambulances today in front of a hospital. The IDF's evidence is simply "we say so".
We are expected to believe such things based on what? Faith???
realcaseyrollins ✝️
you realize they are bombing refugee camps with the justification “there was totally a guy in there we swear” right
Yes.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena @amnesty I should note that I checked here for more evidence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_Palestinians_evacuating_Gaza_City#Responsibility
But most outlets save the #FinancialTimes were hesitant to blame #Israel for the bombing, ostensibly due to a lack of evidence.
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena I’m surprised that the list is so short, in all honesty. 9 year would have yielded more lies, I would think. If anything, this bolsters my trust in #Israel reports instead of decreasing it.
However, I’m curious about this case:
Lying about deadly airstrike on civilian convoy seeking safety in Gaza - October 2023
Is there any backing of #Hamas’ claim that #Israel launched the airstrike, outside of #Hamas? The article says:
However, Amnesty International verified videos of the attack and concluded it was the result of an airstrike.
But that’s not what the linked tweet shows; it says:
@amnesty has verified 6 videos of an attack on 13 October 2023, resulting in civilian casualties along Salah-Al Deen street, a route the Israeli army had designated as safe for civilians to flee after an Israeli ‘order’ told them to leave northern #Gaza.
Not specifying that #Israel was the one who launched the strike. This doesn’t mean that #Israel didn’t lie about this though, just that claims that they did seem to be thinly sourced.
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena They are lying a lot these days, but here are some that date back to 2014.
https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-israels-history-of-spreading-disinformation
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena Interesting. I’d be more apt to believe you if you had plentiful examples of them lying about similar incidents within the past 10 to 15 years or so.
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena Israel is an apartheid state with many similarities to South Africa (I've been there...on both sides of "the wall") It also functions as the "local cop" in the US Empire's imperial system and U.S. taxpayers fund it to the tune of about $4 billion per year.
Of course the Israeli state lies. It has every reason to.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor @leftylabourtech @galena Interesting. The linked article established that they’ve lied before, but not that they’ve lied often about attacks on civilians.
iced depresso
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor @leftylabourtech @galena Interesting. I wish I knew more about the general rate of lies #Israel has perpetuated over time and whether or not that lines up with your conclusion.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor @leftylabourtech @galena Yeah that’s fair.
Generally speaking, I’ve heard that bombing groups of civilians without subsequent evidence of #Hamas targets is largely due to poor intelligence. That’s still bad, but I don’t think it’s as bad as targeting civilians intentionally. And I can’t blame any government for not publicly saying “oops” for accidentally killing civilians, although they certainly should.
But with all that said the #WhitePhosphorus situation, which seems more validated than the other claims, is by far the worse offense here. I couldn’t imagine a legitimate reason to deploy it.
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
sorry judge we regularly shoot up school children, but there are probably drug dealers in the neighborhood. therefore firing blindly is more responsible than bothering to look.
… I’d hope that you’re smart enough to understand why this is a terrible analogy?
iced depresso
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena Of course not, that’s why I’d rather go to a pro #Israel protest, or at the very least an anti #Hamas one
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena so you want to go to a pro genocide protest?
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena I wish I had the time to go to a pro #Israel rally or sumn but I got too much homework 😫
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena Anyway, it's the weekend. I have a mass rally in #solidarity with #Palestine to attend. You should go to the event where you live as well. There is life beyond the internet.
realcaseyrollins ✝️
Israel bombed the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza twice
That sounds pretty bad to me, on the outset. I don’t know all the details though.
killed and injured perhaps hundreds of civilians in order to kill one mid-level Hamas commander. Do you find that acceptable?
Yes, unless there was a way to kill the #Hamas commander without killing as many civilians
Is Israeli intel incompetent now too?
I mean…October 7th happened 🤷🏾♂️ at the very least, I don’t think it’s perfect, and it’s pretty strange to presume that it’d be.
A good chunk of the rest of the world looks at this as terrorizing a civilian population in an act of “ethnic cleansing”.
I never said they were right about that.
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena A good chunk of the rest of the world looks at this as terrorizing a civilian population in an act of "ethnic cleansing".
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena Israel bombed the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza twice, killed and injured perhaps hundreds of civilians in order to kill one mid-level Hamas commander. Do you find that acceptable?
Is Israeli intel incompetent now too?
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@leftylabourtech @thor @icedquinn @galena I was talking about accidentally bombing areas with civilians but no terrorists on bad intel
LeftyLabourTechToronto
@realcaseyrollins @thor @icedquinn @galena There is no question whatsoever that the assassination of Palestinian American Journalist Shireen Abu Aleh in 2022 by the IDF was a murder. Is the IDF arguing that their snipers are incompetent?
realcaseyrollins ✝️
@icedquinn @thor @leftylabourtech @galena No we definitely agree on that. I suspect our disagreement would be whether or not we’d call it murder though.
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