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   eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:12:57 JST eris
   *peels my face off*
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     paula (paula@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:25:23 JST paula

     in reply to
     @eris literally me
     eris likes this.
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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:25:31 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to
     @eris .... .... .... .. . . . fuck you
     
     (and seriously, I think this puts way too much emphasis on voice training, but I'm a voice training dropout sooooo I would think that)
     eris likes this.
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:26:02 JST eris

     in reply to

     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @ginny voice training is generally the make or break, sadly
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:42:01 JST eris

     in reply to

     • eri :vlpn_smol::therian:
     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @eri @ginny how tall are you tho cause at a certain point people are looking for any signs to clock you and the voice is what they hone in on
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     eri :vlpn_smol::therian: (eri@moth.zone)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:42:02 JST eri :vlpn_smol::therian:

     in reply to

     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @eris @ginny i assure you that cis people do not pay attention to that they literally only pay attention to clothes and nothing else
     
     we have never bothered with voice training and we get gendered based solely off our outfit. which is honestly very fun because of being enby
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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:47:29 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to

     • eri :vlpn_smol::therian:
     @eri @eris
     
     my experiences so far:
     
     clothes alone confused people and generally got me to not be gendered at all (I think polite people are worried about getting it wrong and jerks are just mad at this point)
     
     accessories can help, especially things like hair clips and purses that are fairly concretely feminine coded
     
     breasts make a big difference, I think because it signals to polite people more strongly that I want to be coded female (I wore breast forms out yesterday for the first time since mine are still tiny)
     eris likes this.
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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 14:56:22 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to

     • eri :vlpn_smol::therian:
     @eris @eri oh I'm a tall bitch (5'11"), so I'm not likely to blend much anyway. so I like to wear platform shoes (1" or so) and lean into it (also they are my cute shoes and I love them so much)
     
     I'm also kinda discouraged because at my age I kinda assumed even if I do awesome with voice training it'll still be incredibly clockable (that said, im giving cis ppl too much credit on what they'd notice, the daft little dullards)
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:12:44 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz meaning is a social construct so it has reality as a social construct and the social environment that gives it meaning
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:12:46 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space Gender doesn't exist so none of this really matters. These are all social constructs and by adhering yourself to any one construct therein you're holding yourself back and self-sabotaging yourself.

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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:22:32 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz that's great and all but does nothing against transphobia the way that furthering transition does and is essentially a "just think positively :)" dismissal
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:22:33 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space Sure, all I'm saying is, any and every perceived limitation is essentially wholly perceptual. We are always on the outside looking in through what we believe to be the lens of others looking in when, in fact, we are simply existing. I.e. we are trying to meet a reality of what we think others think a thing is or ought to be, without any real knowledge of the actual outside perspective or criteria. Therefore, we become our own greatest critics, criticizing ourselves to standards we don't comprehend since we're perceptualizing faux standards that don't exist which we believe others hold ourselves to.

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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:37:34 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz maybe for some people it's self imposed but I do think a lot of us are sort of predisposed to needing to transition, like our brains and bodies truly never aligned until being on the right hormones
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:37:35 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space I'm not trying to dismiss anything. I'm asking, by proxy, and in a roundabout way, "what is being trans?". I'm not against transition, but, really, nobody necessarily has to undergo transition to be or actualize anything. The point is that it's all self-imposed to meet false concepts of external observations. Do whatever thou wilt, but the anxiety and stress comes from oneself, not from the exterior, because oneself is trying to meet the societal constructs of an exterior and is therefore inorganic and non-genuine to one's own concreted identity.

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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:49:09 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz but it's not a social construct. Gender comes from two distinct biological and mental variations. There might be infinite ways to exist as each gender, and exceptions to everything but walk around anywhere and you'll see that people do tend towards one variation or the other.
     
     Now add in that a developing fetus starts out as female, that's why you have nipples, and you're connected with your mother the whole time feeling her hormones and emotions as a subconscious part of your own. It's only later in development that the Y mutation kicks in and changes the body from a females to a males. There's lots of ways for the brain and the body to develop before that happens, and you can end up with a baby who feels more empathetic, more sensitive, and more like the mother despite having a male body, and later in life that can even result in high estrogen and low testosterone, breast tissue development, etc because the body never got the full signal that it should be male. Meanwhile it's pumping testosterone and the brain doesn't know how to function on it, until you change the hormones and socially transition and things become as the body was starting to initially in development. Then things like depression melt away, life expectancy skyrockets etc.
     
     Like yes there's an extent to which that is all social and you could be whoever you want to be and you make your own meaning etc but there's also an undeniable reality to the fact that many binary trans folks had to transition because we got the initial recipe all jumbled up
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:49:11 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space That's completely fine, if one believes it's necessary for oneself to meet some self-imposed idea or criteria of a social construct. Who am I to tell someone otherwise?

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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:56:15 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz I think sex is hugely important when it comes to understanding the gender of most binary trans people because there is a sexual reality that can't be adequately explained with gender alone, like we don't just decide to identify as one way there is often a biological reason.
     
     That's why binary trans people and non-binary people are often butting head to head because we have different needs, we need sexual reassignment surgery and medical hormones and enbies are generally focused on abolishing gender as a social construct
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 15:56:16 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space I'm not disagreeing whatsoever with transition for those who decide that for themselves. But, I also think you're conflating biological sex with gender, or adopting, to some degree, a deterministic aspect between both (maybe I'm assuming your views on this subject?).

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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:02:37 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space I didn't realize there were so many schisms amongst the community where some accept that gender doesn't exist and sex is a random chance of little consequence, whereas some are hard-rooted into sex being important (paradoxically) similar to how conservative thinkers might rebell and lash out against transgenderism together in asserting that sex+gender are and must be fully congruent per societal constructs.

     eris likes this.
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:03:11 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz non-binary people often think we're the conservatives of trans people simply for having different needs it's kind of annoying
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:14:26 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz binary trans is just one experience and is labeled such to not act like that experience applies universally
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:14:28 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space I will say personally, and with no offense meant, that I do think, as you put it, "binary trans" is quite silly since, essentially, none of this matters or should matter in actual reality as any identities or limitations when it comes to one's identity within this context is purely manufactured either by ourselves or by adopting society's contemporary status-quo manufacture. However, I don't really care (in a nice way): I.e., I fully support one's own autonomy to idealize or identity oneself as one wishes and to seek whatever measures one deems necessary for oneself to try actualizing that identity. I would still, however, assert that my point remains: much of that "transition", e.g. dress or voice, etc., is still chasing a phantom of one's own perception of society's concept of a thing, without really even knowing the individual perceptions or criterion therein of what makes a thing a thing.

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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:32:13 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz @eris you are wrong in a lot of ways, and what you are saying is harmful to trans folks. please stop.
     
     gender is not simply a social construct.
     
     the expectations placed on ppl of a given gender can be, but to state being trans is simply a societal thing is entirely fucking wrong and counter to our scientific understanding of gender and sex
     
     if you want me to cite sources, it's "all of them"
     eris likes this.
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:33:08 JST eris

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @ginny @adiz adiz is a lil ignorant sometimes but he's open to having his mind changed I've noticed
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     Maholmire (maholmire@crlf.ninja)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:40:05 JST Maholmire

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @adiz @eris @ginny
     eris likes this.
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:40:07 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     @ginny@spinny.city Okay. I'll stop speaking. :misato_finger: @eris@akko.disqordia.space

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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:40:10 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space I'm just a dude. :dude_fuck_it: @ginny@spinny.city

     eris likes this.
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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:50:52 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @eris @adiz I give him 7 Internet points for not being a jerk (seriously, genuine appreciation and surprise)
     
     adiz, sorry for jumping in and being snarky.
     
     it's honestly a fascinating subject (biased, obviously) but amazingly underresarched (despite being fascinating)
     
     eg, some trans folks experience biochemical dysphoria; we can absolutely feel these things even outside the context of societal constructs
     
     there are also significant biochemical differences in trans brains; eg trans women (even those who have not undergone hrt) have been shown to have brain structures aligned with their real gender as opposed to the one assigned based on genital shape
     eris likes this.
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     Maholmire (maholmire@crlf.ninja)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:51:47 JST Maholmire

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     'Cause they're a troon that simply dares to exist on the Fediverse. They've probably pissed off all the degenerates by standing their ground and sticking around.
     
     @adiz @eris @ginny
     eris likes this.
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     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:51:48 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     @eris@akko.disqordia.space And, for what it's worth, I consider Eris a friend against the MastoFedi blight. Eris done nothing wrong but consistently get a whole lotta' bullshit. @ginny@spinny.city

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     🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive (ginny@spinny.city)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:51:58 JST 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz @eris I'm late to the party, I did notice that people's eyes get wide when you mention disqordia or Eris but I don't really know what. When I read some shit from dotart shitting on Eris I started following her because, well.
     
     iirc it was when dotart framed the calckey guy
     eris likes this.
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     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 16:52:55 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to

     • Maholmire
     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     • 🏳️‍⚧️ Ginny Maive
     @Maholmire @eris @adiz @ginny kiwifarms eris was more important
      likes this.