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1. Embed this notice
   Shalltear?Stan? (sharutiaburaddofouren@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:09:25 JST Shalltear?Stan?
   It is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone that you are saved. No works, no practices. Christ came into this world to save all sinners, His work is complete. You will know He is true and put your faith in Him by the Grace of the Holy Spirit
   
   It is never you, you are sinful, fallen, graceless, unrighteous. It is only through Jesus Christ that you be made whole again, truly in God's image as when He created Adam and Eve. Every one of us inherit sin as we are born from sinful creatures. You can NEVER make up for the sins you've committed and will commit. Jesus' sacrifice means nothing if you believe you can pay for your sins, for you truly cannot know the scope and weight of your sins. Even the "smallest" sin has enormous unforeseen and long consequences. We deal with the consequences of a fallen world, as people cry out as to why God would allow horrible things to happen as though these weren't the actions of our fathers that have impacted us to this very day
   • Embed this notice
     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:09:23 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     All this stuff hurts my head
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:09:24 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     Yes, one should still try their best to live righteously and do good things because it is the right thing to do, even if being saved is not contingent upon it :akko_cultured:
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:09:24 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • King_Noticer
     @King_Noticer @sharutiaburaddofouren
     Salvation is entirely dependent on the grace of God. But we are justified through both faith and works. The Gospels repeatedly emphasize that those who do not bear fruit will be bound up and tossed into the fire.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:09:25 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to
     @sharutiaburaddofouren
     It's really annoying when anyone tries to declare who is or isn't Christian based on shit Martin Luther made up 1500 years into Christianity.
     "Faith without works is dead."
     "Produce good fruit as evidence of your repentance."
     Obviously nobody can "earn" salvation, but God still expects us to do good works as proof of our faith.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:14 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer
     Where is this? I've never heard of it being done in the modern era. Indulgences are sometimes offered as a grace in exchange for various kinds of devotions, but never for money. Anyone who does offer indulgences in exchange for money does so contrary to Catholic doctrine and commits a grave sin.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:15 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer i keep hearing this but the large rcc population where I'm at happily still sells them.
     
     And actually, I'm going to buy one for the sake of argumentation.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:16 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer >never mentioned till centuries later and paired with a cash for salvation scam
     
     Brother...
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:16 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer
     Buying indulgences is a corrupt practice that has long been condemned.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Shalltear?Stan? (sharutiaburaddofouren@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:17 JST Shalltear?Stan?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon there is no purgatory. Your sins have been paid for by Christ. You are denying that He died for your sins, that His salvific work is complete. What does, "it is finished" mean then? According to your logic, nothing, because it still isn't finished until after your sins are purged. It is logically incomprehensible, it is disrespectful to Christ as it demands more atonement as though the blood, infinite in capacity as the Lord incarnate, is not enough. It is at odds with God's attributes as well. He cannot be all loving and all merciful if you still have yet been forgiven after Him wiping the slate of debt clean
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:17 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon Purgatory is about purifying and preparing us for paradise. It's not about Christ's sacrifice being inadequate in any way.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:18 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer You pass through purgatory into paradise.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:19 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer
     
     >thief on the cross
     >did no works whatsoever in his new faith
     Okay, let's hear the cope argument
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:19 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer
     This is where purgatory comes in.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:12:19 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer why do you blasphemy against God? What did he tell the thief that is directly in contradiction to that?
     
     Or is it the belief of the apostolics that Christ lied? "Purgatory" isn't heaven, or did the definition change?
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:17:14 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     >He cannot be all loving and all merciful if you still have yet been forgiven after Him wiping the slate of debt clean.
     Is it not merciful to give a reduced punishment to someone who deserves death? The existence or lack of for purgatory is irrelevant to my salvation and faith. Perhaps one can say it's a useful reminder of our need to fulfill Christ's commandment: pickup our cross and follow Him.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:21 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     >It still doesn't change the fact that the "Rock" has multiple meanings, but none mean Peter.
     My brother in Christ, where do you think the name "Peter" comes from? His name was Simon, and he was a zealot. He was called Peter, or Petrus, which means Rock, by Christ. Saying "Rock" doesn't refer to Peter confused me greatly.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:22 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer
     That's more of a Catholic vs. Orthodox argument on the subject of apostolic succession, since it still affirms the foundation of a Church as the source of authority.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:22 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer no it isn't. It's an argument made on consistency.
     
     If the statement was only for the one individual, then it should have only been said solely to them. It still doesn't change the fact that the "Rock" has multiple meanings, but none mean Peter.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:24 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @apropos @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon
     Christ does mention that He founds a Church, and St. Peter is the rock.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:24 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer then why did he repeat that phrase to all the disciples sans the punny nickname part? Seems a tad odd.
   • Embed this notice
     of nothing (apropos@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:25 JST of nothing

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @ArdainianRight @King_Noticer @sharutiaburaddofouren
     >Christians have a thousand-year tradition
     yeah but in which of these texts, compiled and preserved for me by those same Christians, is the tradition stated?
     I think they just got it wrong from the beginning.
     Christianity actually died immediately, all the interim Christians went to hell (they were literally no better than the pagans they displaced), and I am resurrecting Christianity in the current year from scratch, dinosaur fossils, and a dictionary.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:26 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon Christ fully redeems us. Yet we are still given many trials and tribulations in this life as opportunities to grow in holiness. Purgatory is similar to these trials, given for our benefit, not because of any inadequacy in Christ's sacrifice.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:26 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer when does Christ himself mention such a thing?
   • Embed this notice
     Shalltear?Stan? (sharutiaburaddofouren@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:20:27 JST Shalltear?Stan?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon what is purifying if not purging of sins, which was already done on the cross? God is either perfect or He is no god at all. You can't have it both ways where His sacrifice on the cross means he sort kinda died for your sins, you just need a little something more. A concept which God never once mentioned in His earthly ministry, nor in His wisdom handed down to the prophets
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:33 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     I wouldn't have a problem with them holding those beliefs if they didn't often come bundled with accusations of heresy for anyone who does these things.
   • Embed this notice
     M. Night Charlemayne (deerblood@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:34 JST M. Night Charlemayne

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     >don't pray for the dead, it's an insinuation that Jesus wasn't good enough
     
     Prots are fucking kooks
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:35 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer
     I'm pretty sure divination is condemned elsewhere in the Bible. I don't think praying for the dead is.
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:36 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @SpurgAnon @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer The idea of praying for and offering atonement for the dead was a Jewish tradition mentioned in 2 Maccabees 13:42-46. Purgatory was an expansion on this, but it wasn't totally made up after the fact.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:36 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer sure it was. Interesting that that was determined to be scripture after the whole mess caused by a German as after the fact justification.
     
     The same sets of dueterocanon also mention divination. Should a Christian engage in such?
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:38 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • King_Noticer
     @apropos @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @King_Noticer thousands of years of tradition? And what happens when we can clearly identify that a tradition was an invention added after the fact? Lmao
   • Embed this notice
     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:23:55 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     @DEERBLOOD @sharutiaburaddofouren @apropos @King_Noticer @SpurgAnon
     I don't even care if they have dumb theology. I don't pretend they're not Christians over this. They loudly and regularly insist I'm not a real Christian because I don't agree with a random German preacher in the 1500s interpretation of Scripture.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:27:07 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     How so?
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:27:08 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • King_Noticer
     That it false.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:31:39 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     I have figured out the distinction. What of it? The only prayers TO the dead I make are requests that they pray for me to God. It is a message in a bottle, effectively, down a one way stream. Even that is something I don't do too often.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:31:40 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     @BowsacNoodle @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @apropos @DEERBLOOD @King_Noticer
     >to/for
     
     Figure it out
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:34:02 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     >Peter had a collection of names that all more or less mean pebble.
     First I've heard of this.
     Christ, load bearing foundation.
   • Embed this notice
     Spurg (spurganon@varishangout.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:34:04 JST Spurg

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     @BowsacNoodle @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @apropos @King_Noticer Peter comes from the hypostatic nature of Christ being unable to resist the desire to make a pun. Peter had a collection of names that all more or less mean pebble.
     
     Who is the cornerstone that the builders rejected? Christ or Peter? What is a cornerstone btw and what is it used for, in case you don't know... if you don't, this should be interesting for you.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:37:28 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Okay, but how does that refute the point that not bearing fruit gets you the boot?
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:37:29 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     There is no purgatory.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:39:01 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Sola scriptura too, right? Point to the verses in the bible which proclaim those two things.
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:39:02 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     Sola fide
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:39:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • Dan_Hulson
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     poa.st/objects/64f0718d-85ac-4eeb-aa96-4a84cbf54c8d
   • Embed this notice
     Dan_Hulson (dan_hulson@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:39:56 JST Dan_Hulson

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     Religious Hellthread incoming we closer to full moon I see
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:43:07 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Romans 10:8-11
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:43:07 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     You can edit posts you know. It's not an own, but a Gish Gallup attempt when you do it this way.
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:43:08 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Romans 4:20-5:2
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:43:09 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     Isiah 45:24-25
   • Embed this notice
     Dan_Hulson (dan_hulson@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:43:22 JST Dan_Hulson

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • of nothing
     • M. Night Charlemayne
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Spurg
     • King_Noticer
     I hate petty religious hell threads and who's considered White Hellthreads they are reductive and cause shit. I see it as we all Christian brothers and White
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:47:09 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Yes. Faith, by grace. God expects us to do works as a sign of faith. I am not qualified nor capable of delineation for what is it isn't the line. I don't like the concept of "once saved always saved" anymore than I like the concept of perpetually earning back your salvation. God forgives me far more than I deserve, and that is grace. Even if it's just my own feelings as a man, I feel I should try and do good because undeserved goodness and mercy and love was shown to me by Christ.
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:47:10 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     We are justified only by faith.
   • Embed this notice
     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:48:49 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     Works are good but you arenot justified by them
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:48:49 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     I don't think I am. I don't think Catholics argue that you are, but that lack of works is dead faith. It's a nuance issue that really becomes a strawman.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:53:42 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     Acts of charity, kindness, mercy, love, particularly without crowd recognition is how I'd define it.
   • Embed this notice
     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 03:53:43 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Branman65?
     I don’t even know what good works is tbh
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 04:34:08 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     That's why we are justified by faith alone
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 04:34:09 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Branman65?
     Oof
     
     I’m bad at all those things :sweatin:
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 04:40:51 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • Branman65?
     • King_Noticer
     I still say you're arguing against a strawman. It is not enough to receive salvation and sit on your rear without doing anything different in your life. If you become a Christian and nothing changes regarding your behaviors at all, what does that mean? There should be some change because going from non-believer to Christian is a fundamental change. I don't think it's necessarily quantifiable nor should we spend our time trying to graph it or otherwise obsess over the minutiae.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 04:40:52 JST Branman65?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • King_Noticer
     I know it's just annoying on phone. My point still stands
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 05:54:07 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
     For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
     
     It's all over the Bible, but I know Catholics aren't as familiar, so it's ok bro. But take it from a protestant, its there
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 05:54:07 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • idea_enjoyer
     14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
     
     18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
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     ?uper?nekFriend ? (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 05:54:09 JST ?uper?nekFriend ?

     in reply to

     • ArdainianRight
     It is not a judgement on who is and is not a Christian. What was at stake during the Reformation and what is at stake now is whether people believe the true Gospel or the false gospels. The question is very simple: what is the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and do you believe it? Both the reformers like Luther, Calvin, and Chemnitz and the bishops of the Council of Trent, like Paul III, Psaume, and Pious IV understood the stakes:
     
     "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
     not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
     But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
     As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9)
     
     "For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
     And 'If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?'" (1 Peter 4:17-18)
     
     If one teaches or believes another gospel than the one explicitly taught by Scriptures, they remain dead and condemned in sin and will go to eternal damnation after death.
     
     The Council of Trent codified ex cathedra that anyone who teaches that grace is only the flavor, that is the work, of God, he is damned (Canon XI).
     
     While the Reformers promoted the view being espoused by Shalltear-stan. Rome and Wittenberg cannot both be right.
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     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 05:54:09 JST ArdainianRight

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     @SuperSnekFriend @sharutiaburaddofouren
     Where is Sola Fide in the Gospels?
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:01:19 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     >Only through faith in Jesus and His work are we saved, and only through Jesus are our works acceptable to God.
     I don't think God thinks so little of good deeds, despite them not being sufficient for salvation. The law is written on our hearts, and it makes sense to me that those who demonstrate "goodness" despite ignorance of Christ would be seen in a better light than those who did not. Good Samaritan for example.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:01:20 JST idea_enjoyer

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     Yes, saving faith is demonstrated through God working in us to will and to act according to His good purpose. The justification of a Christian which happens after Salvation (which happens by faith) involves our faith moving us to act out of love for God, helping to demonstrate that our faith is genuine.
     
     Abraham's belief is when God called him His friend, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and Abraham's actions proved that his faith was genuine.
     
     Works do not save. We want to do good because we are saved, but all our righteousness is as special as a used tampon in God's eyes. Only through faith in Jesus and His work are we saved, and only through Jesus are our works acceptable to God
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:13:07 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     Doesnt address my point -or- you're taking a bad faith interpretation of what I said.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:13:08 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     Isaiah 64:6 ESV
     We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
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     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:15:01 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     From what I understand, good works without the saving faith of Christ go towards the infinity sin debt and basically don‘t exist, because subtracting a finite amount from infinity is still infinity
     
     They’re acceptable to God when you are saved through faith in Jesus because there’s no longer a debt and you get to keep your good boy points
     
     But I’m also stupid and I don’t know nothing, so don’t listen to me
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:18:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     You're correct on the first part. My point was specifically about how God looks at people doing good deeds. As I said, it's not enough for salvation, but I don't think God dismisses everything a person does if they're not a Christian.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:23:01 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     I think it addresses it, and is a good faith interpretation. No work will save us, no matter how good. If we are talking about non Christians, it's obviously better if they aren't completely wicked reprobates, but their good works will not earn them salvation, though the Bible does indicate God notices those who fear God.
     
     Works never earn you anything. Look at even relationships to learn this truth.
     Song of Solomon 8:7 ESV
     Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it. If a man offered for love all the wealth of his house, he would be utterly despised.
     
     What is valued is the person behind the work.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:28:36 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     This whole conversation is around accusations and bad interpretations of people's beliefs. I'm attacking the premise that God doesn't appreciate good deeds in the objective sense unless a person is a Christian. That was directly stated by several people here, which is odd to me for several reasons.
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:28:37 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     @BowsacNoodle @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf what does it matter if they don't go to heaven though?
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:31:42 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     No, it was not your fault but mine friend. I did not explain the purpose of my point which was not around salvation but was an attempt to quell the Johnathan Edwards tier rhetorical situation I found too prevalent in the thread.
   • Embed this notice
     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:31:43 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     I don't typically enjoy these conversations, most of the time they just result in us being personally, religiously autistic.
     
     If you get any value from what I said, great, and if you don't, then it was probably me that failed
     
     🥂
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:31:44 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     Arguing against a point I didn't make.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:32:51 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     I do understand them. That's why I'm so frustrated 🥴. I failed to explain correctly.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:32:52 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     I wish you understood the verses I shared and the point I was making, because if you did, these things would no longer be odd to you
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:37:41 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     @King_Noticer @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @sharutiaburaddofouren @wgiwf It could be me being autistic, but since Hell and Heaven are for eternity, mitigating or amplifying them in any way seems pointless. Sure it *could* be worse, but it'll still be forever.
     It's not the kind of thing anyone wants to think about, but after a point, in Hell, wouldn't, well, one go numb, no matter what happened? I've also heard Hell described as a really dark place, that sounds about right.
     Or something like it. There's no way to know (in this life), and no one really wants to know.
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:37:42 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     @King_Noticer @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf Isn't the point that anything times infinity is infinity?
     If there's no salvation for the unbeliever, that's it. Same for the believer.
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     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:37:43 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • Griffith
     An eternity of dropping a hammer on your toes is preferable to an eternity of being skinned alive? I guess?
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     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:37:47 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • Griffith
     Well, if it were money instead of suffering, say, it would be more manageable to pay one dollar a day forever than a hundred dollars a day forever, even though you’re still paying an infinite amount of money in the long run
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:40:04 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     This is why I appreciate Dante's Inferno, even if it's just fiction. It's interesting to think about.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:41:30 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     Probably true. That would explain the centurion who approached Christ and felt unworthy for Him to enter his home.
   • Embed this notice
     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:41:31 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     As far as I can tell, when God looks at sinners, he isn't looking at doers of good works, He is looking for those who fear God. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, is not a work.
     
     Acts 13:26 ESV
     "Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:54:30 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     Nobody in this conversation believes works earn salvation. The Protestant portion of this conversation has varying explanations for why Catholics ackshually believe works earn salvation, despite us saying otherwise.
   • Embed this notice
     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:54:31 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     @King_Noticer @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf That's why I want to be autistic, because this is the kind of thing worth being autistic about. I might go bankrupt faster at $100 a day, but I'll still go bankrupt, and it's the same amount of money. There is no difference.
     This, I believe, is why idea enjoyer and protestants don't believe in works. The most unworthy believer is infinitely ahead of the most worthy believer, and equal with the most worthy believer because they have both been granted eternity.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:54:59 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     Very minor quibble
     
     I don't believe in any kind of equality whatsoever, I will feel blessed if I can forever clean the toilets of heaven. I'm not equal to the most worthy believers, and find difficulty in even identifying how God places value. But it's not works, "we are unworthy servants, we've done our duty" means something.
     
     This is why I'm drawn to ancient Christianity, whatever it was, a Christianity of the body. I've learned more about Christianity by having a family than by reading any number of books or arguments.
     
     I don't think God is only pure rationality, utilitarian for His purpose. I think God loves and hates, tolerates, dislikes..
     
     It makes perfect sense to me that Jesus had a favorite food
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:59:10 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     The whole civilized world is a big satanic horde except for Christians right now. We can sort things out when we're not dealing with that.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 06:59:11 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     To be fair, wars were fought over these issues. To just sweep that away now is definitely interesting, and all I can say is "welcome to faith."
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     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:26:18 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     @BowsacNoodle @Griffith @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf
     Even a lot of people who nominally claim to be Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, join together with said Satanic horde. We have so much bigger problems to worry about when we have rainbow freaks celebrating abortion who say there is no hell and sex changes for children are fine.
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     Griffith (griffith@5dollah.click)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:26:23 JST Griffith

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     @ArdainianRight @sharutiaburaddofouren @BowsacNoodle @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf Can people who don't see themselves as Christian join against the Satanic horde?
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:26:38 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     Yes.
     
     Eventually they will find that they need a religion to fight a religion, but joining the battle on the right side is an indication that they possess some fear of God, at least in my view.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:28:51 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     I know several people who realized Satan and evil exist and consequently Christ is only way once "trans kids" became a thing.
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     King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:36:43 JST King_Noticer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
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     • Griffith
     I turned to God after realizing how bad I’d become without Him
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     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:36:44 JST ArdainianRight

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     @BowsacNoodle @Griffith @sharutiaburaddofouren @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf
     Ellen Page's horrifyingly dead eyes convinced me I really need to behave and follow Christ more fully. Seeing what happens to people who fully cut themselves off from God is a strong reason to believe.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ repeated this.
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     :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:38:41 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad:

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
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     i could see that. thank you friend.

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     :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad: (rmiv@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:38:42 JST :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad:

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
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     • Griffith
     >wars were fought over these issues.
     >welcome to faith.
     
     that we occasionally kill each other over such disputes, is this a feature or a bug? thank you friend.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 07:38:42 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • :bible_wh::confederateflag:RMIV⛎:sonnenrad:
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     I have a little daydream about the interchurch wars, I think I got it from a CS Lewis idea originally, but basically, two medieval soldiers fight one another, brutal, bruises, blood, guts, full effort. They both die on the field of battle, and after their spirits leave their bodies, realization hits, of things out of our view, they walk to each other, congratulate each other on their bravery and skill, laugh about the situation, and walk to heaven arm in arm
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     Gundog (gundog@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:32:39 JST Gundog

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     • Griffith
     Edit: Poast is being finicky, I had something written but it disappeared.
     
     Once I have the time I plan on reading the teachings concerning 'virtuous pagans'. I glanced over several parts of this thread and it looks like the old faith and works debate. The question of virtuous pagans seems tangentially related.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:32:39 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
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     • Gundog
     • idea_enjoyer
     • King_Noticer
     • Griffith
     I almost posted about the virtuous pagan as grounds for my point on good works being appreciated despite the infinite sin debt. It's something interesting to think about for sure. All of this made me think how great it would be if we couldn't differentiate between beliefs on this matter because all of us were just doing good works and helping one another and no one wasted time theoryceling when they could be out being a Christian.
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     Mitch Conner (olmitch@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:35:23 JST Mitch Conner

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
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     @BowsacNoodle @Griffith @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @Gundog @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf I dont recall the parable of the virtuous pagan
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:35:23 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     Not a parable just church fathers applying the *age of accountability* standard to those who loved prior to Christ or came after and neber had the chance to know of Him.
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     Gundog (gundog@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:39:28 JST Gundog

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     Less a parable, more a part of early church tradition. I could not name a specific Church Father or theologian who has discussed it, but I am familiar with the term.
     
     The "Harrowing of Hell" is another related story/concept, which is not found in the Bible but is a reasoned response to the question of "What about good people who never heard the Word?" I think the passage above about Plato is related, but I don't know what book it is from.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:54:08 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     What of those in the Americas prior to the first Europeans spreading Christianity?
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     KushanaFan01 (kf01@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 08:54:09 JST KushanaFan01

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     • Griffith
     @BowsacNoodle @Griffith @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @Gundog @King_Noticer @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer @wgiwf @olmitch
     
     I didn't know Plato was before the Old Testament, which all points to the coming Messiah. I didn't know Plato couldn't behold the wonders of heaven as in Romans 1:20-21 says:
     "20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
     21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
     
     Plato is sadly in Hell, as there is no such thing as a righteous Pagan, Romans 3:10:
     "10 as it is written:
     “None is righteous, no, not one;
     11 no one understands;
     no one seeks for God.
     12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
     no one does good,
     not even one.”"
     
     We can turn to the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man to Behold that once one crosses into the Abyss there is no going to and fro, no second chances. Hebrews 9:
     "26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
     
     Salvation in the Old Testament was Faith in The Coming Messiah. It's always been by Faith.
     DO YOU WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN?
     YOU MUST HUMBLY UNDERSTAND YOU ARE A SINNER (ROMANS 3:23)
     
     YOU MUST KNOW THE PENALTY FOR YOUR SIN IS ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN HELL (ROMANS 6:23) (REV 20:14)
     
     YOU MUST BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD AND DIED WAS BURIED ROSE AGAIN TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS (JOHN 3:16)
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:50:51 JST ランファン

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     @idea_enjoyer

     The main poison in Christendom is the idea that clergy making a mess of things at various points in history justifies people declaring themselves to be a new clergy. There are plenty of valid criticisms of the historical and current leadership of the Catholic Church but none of it is more harmful than the exponential division and vast heresies of five centuries of fractures and infighting.

     @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @SuperSnekFriend

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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:50:52 JST idea_enjoyer

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     It was a brotherly poke my friend. You poked protestants over faith alone, so one poked back. 👉
     
     Beyond that, if you believe in Jesus Christ and are saved, you're my brother in the faith, be well.
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     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:50:53 JST ArdainianRight

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     @idea_enjoyer @sharutiaburaddofouren @SuperSnekFriend
     I'm tired of interdenominational slapfighting too, mostly prots saying that Catholics aren't Christians. But Catholics agree that we are saved by the grace of God rather than our own merit. Catholics do profess a faith in Jesus Christ and recognize that we are entirely dependent upon Him for salvation. And I do study the Bible, I don't appreciate being accused of never reading the Bible.
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     ArdainianRight (ardainianright@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:50:54 JST ArdainianRight

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     @idea_enjoyer @sharutiaburaddofouren @SuperSnekFriend
     Protestants really can't seem to distinguish between "faith" and "faith alone." Catholics don't teach that anyone can "earn" salvation, and that Christ alone saves, and all we can do is be open to the grace of God, which manifests itself in both faith and good works. Everyone basically agrees that we're saved by the grace of God rather than our own merit, which is what that's talking about, but justification is through faith and works.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:50:54 JST idea_enjoyer

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     I'm not huge on the interdenominational fight, I'm happy for Christians to just follow God wherever they are, but when people say what you did, the "where is it in the Bible bro" thing... It's obviously there. Dumb questions are dumb, even when I'm the one asking them.
     
     Those verses are worded exactly as an answer to your question.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 10:56:04 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     Shots fired across the bow on that one. I still think we can go back further and blame Rome for the schism. Without the rest of the patriarchs to keep Rome in check, things got weirdly political and autistic. Much of it was unavoidable because of the Ottomans and various threats that separated Christendom, so my "blame" is more tongue in cheek.
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:16:21 JST ランファン

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     • idea_enjoyer

     @idea_enjoyer

     I used to think that

     @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend

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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:16:22 JST idea_enjoyer

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     Honestly, I just don't care about relitigating schism. You're in the house of faith, you've picked a room, good enough.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:18:36 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     They just issued a ban on that in some diocese, because apparently the obvious wasn't obvious enough. It's not approved per church teaching obviously.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:18:37 JST idea_enjoyer

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     I'm not talking about that, that's a literal pagan temple. And it happens in Catholic churches to
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:29:27 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     I still feel bad for Luther. At least as I understand it, which admittedly comes from a place of Protestant upbringing and secular historical education, he was in a bad situation where living his honest convictions meant going against The Church.
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:29:28 JST ランファン

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     @BowsacNoodle

     At least the Orthodox have legitimate apostolic roots.

     Inb4 someone makes a retarded argument for Luther being a priest

     @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @SuperSnekFriend @idea_enjoyer

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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:34:13 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     I actually don't know about his real estate mogul enterprises. QRD?
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     Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:34:14 JST Paultron-3030

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     he may have been honest but refusing to meet to discuss his issues and instead buy into a gay real estate scam was kinda cringe tbqh
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:35:08 JST idea_enjoyer

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • ランファン
     This is only a small aspect of the Catholic church's inner divisions.
     
     I'm just not taking anyone seriously that says their denomination or sect is on the right track. They're all compromised at this point.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:37:37 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     Theres a full scale attack against the church for sure. Something needs to be done soon because we're going to see real Christianity declared a religion of hate in the countries which were founded by Christians if it isn't handled soon. I mean even something as simple as a reinstatement of the creed for all churches that aren't doing the 🌈 satanism thing.
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     Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:38:18 JST Paultron-3030

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     the diet of worms was a multi day highly legalistic affair and when it became clear that Luther would not escape without punishment he skipped out on the last day and sought asylum with local princes. the local princes and received him and smelled blood, using his safety as an excuse to begin seizing church property (the most valuable in their regions because they were well developed agricultural lands intended to be worked more or less communally)
     
     lots of the 30 years war was less about religion and requisitioning these lands into secular authority, which was successful
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:41:19 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     It doesn't need to be that simple, but the simplest thing that works.
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:41:20 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • ランファン
     It's too late for that. Look at the LCMS. Creeds won't save it
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:05 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     • idea_enjoyer
     Why?
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:06 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
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     • ランファン
     That's a funny way of saying you're homosexual
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:06 JST ランファン

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     • idea_enjoyer

     @idea_enjoyer @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend

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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:07 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • idea_enjoyer

     @idea_enjoyer

     That’s a funny way of saying you have no argument

     @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend

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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:08 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • ランファン
     Every comment you've made in this thread has been bait. I'm just throwing it back. You came in blaming the reformation for division, insulting the father of protestantism, mocking me when I said "I don't care what denomination you're in if you're in the house if faith"
     
     We had a decent discussion earlier, Catholic, orthobro, and filthy protestant (me).
     
     You are a fag and your shits all retarded
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 11:46:09 JST ランファン

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     @idea_enjoyer

     Did anyone in this thread claim their sect was on the right track? That seems like a throwaway bait comment

     @sharutiaburaddofouren @ArdainianRight @BowsacNoodle @SuperSnekFriend

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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 21:08:18 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     • Victor_Emmanuel
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     I'm willing to consider alternatives. No one is successfully taking back these corrupted institutions though, why is that
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     Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 21:08:19 JST Victor_Emmanuel

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     How long until it’s time schism from them?
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     Victor_Emmanuel (victor_emmanuel@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 21:08:20 JST Victor_Emmanuel

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     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     A doctrine of retreat is doomed to fail
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 21:08:20 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
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     You can call it retreat if you want, I prefer to think of it as building something new, building a fortress in hostile territory
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     idea_enjoyer (idea_enjoyer@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 21:08:21 JST idea_enjoyer

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • ArdainianRight
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • ランファン
     Simplest is leaving the churches of nice, and going somewhere based or starting your own, then being absolutely intolerant
     
     Schism now and avoid the rush as SuperLutheran says