Paul Cantrell
This from @JuliusGoat is closely related to what I was thinking when I first heard the Access Hollywood tape:
https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/111120967530237977
Bullies, abusers, all these gross people are constantly testing the waters — to see what they can get away with, and also to see •who• will let them get away with it. It’s about looking for targets, and it’s also about social group formation.
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Paul Cantrell
I remember at the time hearing all these other men (rightly! laudably!) trying to distance themselves from Trump’s behavior — but when folks said things like “Nobody’s ever talked like that in any locker room •I’ve• been in,” I was incredulous. Come on. Of •course• you’ve heard some asshole testing those waters, seeing just how gross and misogynistic their peers will let them be, seeing who will go along with it. And…
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Paul Cantrell
…just as the OP says, if there’s any pushback, then hey! just joking! didn’t mean it! But if you’re paying attention, you’ll notice that’s not the whole response. Those who push back get shut out. Those who go along get let in.
Toxic male social circles are a permission structure in which increasing willingness to go along with misogyny grants increasing access to the inner circle.
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Paul Cantrell
In the Access Hollywood tape, it’s not Trump but Whathisname Bush who first stood out to me: trying to kiss up by going along, trying to talk the talk, pathetically hoping to be granted acceptance to the next innermost circle by laughing at what’s not funny.
Bullies ask for permission, and reward those who grant it. And there are always people willing to grant permission in exchange for access to the bully’s power.
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Paul Cantrell
We get so hung up on what people really •believe•: is Whathisname (just searched it, it's Billy) Bush •actually• a misogynistic jerk like that? Does he really think of women that way?
In those situations, belief is not nearly as important as action. Who laughs along? Who joins in? Who sits out? Who pushes back?
An old saying: “We are what we pretend to be.” I might add: “We are what we permit around us.”
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Paul Cantrell
I do think we’ve come a long way in my lifetime thinking about the role of bystanders.
I think of the bus driver and the security guard in that tape: Did they laugh along? Did they cringe? How, in their positions, could they have pushed back? Is refusing to acquiesce the most they can do? Even that — simply refusing to laugh along — is more than nothing.
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Paul Cantrell
Remember those high school kids in Wisconsin who posed for a group photo doing a Nazi salute? There’s this one kid, far upper right, who’s not going along. Note how they’re standing apart from the group. I spent a long time looking at that inscrutable facial expression, wondering what’s going on, wonder what their life is like. That expression…I am project, yes, but…it’s one I think I wore a lot in my high school years.
Paul Cantrell
@mcmullin
I feel the same, and often wonder whether society has improved or whether I’ve just managed to filter my social circle over the years.
David McMullin
@inthehands
This is really true. Anyone who says they’ve never heard some jerk do this is not to be trusted. But something I’ve noticed through the years is that people test the waters like that around me less and less; it’s been years since it happened. Part of it is that I just don’t have to be around those types much anymore. But I also flatter myself to think part of it is because they can tell it wouldn’t fly, so they keep it to themselves.
Paul Cantrell
The role of bystander, this continuum from permission-granter to permission-denier, is a place where anti-fascist and many, many kinds of anti-discrimination work converge.
Those subtle moments of hideous people asking permission are some of the moments where we are most powerful in our daily lives. What kind of self-training have you done — or wished you’d done — to be ready in those moments? What tools do you keep in your toolbox? I’m interested to hear.
/end for now
Paul Cantrell
@tehstu
There is no charity needed and there is no nuance to add. The details don’t make it any better. The kids all said it was a joke, and it’s pretty clear a percentage of them don’t actually believe that.
Emile Snyder
@inthehands and in the more extreme cases, when the patriarchal/misogynist position is dominant in the environment, the dynamic is more overtly threatening: Either you participate in and enforce the toxic definition of masculinity, or you are the target of it's violent enforcement.
Paul Cantrell
I’m not sure I have a ton of wisdom on this, but I’ll offer this thought:
Refusing to grant permission, refusing to participate, comes with social costs. If we want to get kids in school — or grown-ups in neighborhoods and workplaces — to push back against the awfulness, we have to deal with the fact that those costs are real and understand just what we’re asking.
/end
B Haas
@inthehands An important tool in my bystander toolbox is one I learned from someone on Twitter a few years ago: say Wow.
Someone says/does something racist/sexist/fascist/ableist/etc? Say “Wow.”
It interrupts and draws attention. It treats whatever came before as out of the ordinary. It doesn’t support the other person, but it also doesn’t immediately make them defensive. It buys you time to figure out what to say/do next
Paul Cantrell
@_chris_real
I do like it as a time-buying tactic, just as @belehaa already said. It’s so hard to find the best words on the spot. This is a great tactic for buying a moment to think what to say next.
Chris Real
@belehaa @inthehands Yeah, but it's a dodge, not engagement.
"How so?" or similar, forces them to expose their insinuations, which they are afraid to do (or else they would have stated them upfront).
Getting a fascist/sexist/etc to explain themself will always be their downfall. And you are really speaking to listeners, not the fascist.
You can never 'debate' a fascist. Not in good faith, anyway . . .
Jen
@inthehands you are very right about the social costs. When I think about times I haven't called out bigotry, I've either been rabbit-in-headlights stunned or afraid of repercussions. Either way, the social vulnerability has been strong enough to make me miss the chance. When I *have* called it out, I've either been in a socially powerful position or have carefully calculated my exit strategy. I'd like to be braver, but it's not easy. I have, at least, avoided active encouragement.
Paul Cantrell
@JetlagJen
Yes, everything you say resonates with my own feelings. I find I’ve responded best in the situations for which I’ve already prepared beforehand in some way, being ready to recognize the pattern and having a ready response for it. Social media has been incredibly helpful in this regard: hearing others speak frankly about their experiences helps prepare me in advance for my own.
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