Aral Balkan
So FairPhone are launching the 5th version of their phone and right there on the page (which I won’t link to):
“All of your favorite Google Apps will be right there with you.”
Nothing like a good bit of fair trade, environmentally-friendly surveillance capitalism, eh?
(I spoke with them when they were just starting out. They fully know and understand what #Google’s business model is. They fully understand what #SurveillanceCapitalism is. This is not an oversight; it’s strategy.)
Aral Balkan
And please do not enter my mentions with “but you can install a different operating system on it.”
Statistically speaking, no one does that.
No one buys a car and charges the engine except for car geeks.
(Not to mention the legitimacy an organisation with the stated goals of Waag/FairPhone gives to surveillance capitalism by endorsing Google… I mean, that’s something special that money can’t buy.)
Annika Backstrom
@aral Google Chrome is my favourite app (for downloading Firefox)
Fruity Mercury :catjam:
@aral the shit part is that if they don't do it, lots of people won't buy their product.
In my country (idk how it is elsewhere), banking or government apps literally will not work unless you have them installed through the app store (which ok you can spoof if you know what you're doing but same argument as changing OS applies) and/or unless you have Google Play Services. It's a huge issue for google-free custom OS users too.
It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't type situation
Aral Balkan
@EchteNachtraaf They have a social mission. They’ve got Waag. They’ve got the guy who made his millions with his ISP who funds them. They could fight it. Invest in the software side of things. Sacrifice short-term sales to at least start paving a way forward that doesn’t involve Google.
(But when I spoke to their aforementioned money guy back in the day he just didn’t care about the free/open source side of it. He was obsessed with it being a commerical success. So here we are.)
Jean
@SigmaOne @aral It's on sale here with a google-free OS :
https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5-fr/
feat @murena
SigmaOne
@aral the "install another OS" also has the issue of that OS needing to exist in the first place, and usually it doesn't for quite a while because turns out making Android ROMs isn't exactly that trivial
i think for that to hold any merit as a solution, at the very least the phone manufacturer should provide a base OS image without gapps on it
personally i think a reasonable middle ground would be the phone asking whether to install them in the initial setup process though
Aral Balkan
@jeanjean @SigmaOne @murena I had my reservations about their App Store but it looks like they’ve made improvements (see https://nervuri.net/e/app-lounge) so, yeah, that’s a good alternative to have.
And there’s no reason (beyond wanting more sales) that FairPhone cannot do that themselves instead of continuing to legitimise Google and surveillance capitalism. But I guess it’s better to have your cake and eat it too.
Aral Balkan
@astromateusz See https://framapiaf.org/@jeanjean/110978096676337328
(Apparently /e/os has dealt with the security concerns regarding how they installed apps, so I’m more inclined to recommend it now.)
Mateusz Olech
@aral that's a shame, I'm thinking about buying one when my current phone breaks down some day. I really like their easy repair model and long support. tbh I already have google spyware on my current phone so there would be not much of a difference.
Realistically speaking there is basically no alternative, you either use google spyware or apple spyware, and that's sad.
François Lemaire 🏴☠️
@aral You can buy the FP4 with a different operating system: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-4-eu/ I know that Fairphone cooperates with /e/, while other manufacturers make it hard to build alternative ROMs on purpose. But I agree with you, they should sell it with /e/ themselves.
Aral Balkan
@patrizia @burdickjp @murena There’s also another saying: If FairPhone is an ethical company and they have no problem encouraging people to use Google, then Google must be an ethical company too (otherwise FairPhone would be unethical in suggesting the use of an unethical company).
I do agree that it doesn’t roll off the tongue as easily, though.
Patrizia
@burdickjp @aral @murena There's a great saying that covers this situation: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
Jeffrey P Burdick
@aral I'm not sure what's outrageous about a company that makes #android phones making android phones? #fairphone has chosen a very specific battle to fight in this industry, and this is a battle they will lose if they're fighting on other fronts. They have a history of supporting other builds on their phones, and, as others here have mentioned, @murena sells fairphones without #google.
Aral Balkan
@blkzm This is true.
s
@aral no ethical consumption under capitalism
Aral Balkan
@Beeks Yes, indeed, there is nothing that cannot be done that is different to what is already being done. Gotcha!
Beeks
@aral what are they supposed to do? "Hey, buy our phone and lose access to all the apps you use!" isn't a great sales pitch.
I'm sure many on Mastodon will say shit like "Bro just unbuntu the distro to sideload the Unix you idiot" or whatever the fuck, but y'all are the minority. Most people just want a phone that works with minimal hassle, not to get an associate degree in computer science just to be able to play Candy Crush.
Aral Balkan
@tsuica Is it really, though? If you like, I can take one of my semi-functional PinePhones that’s gathering dust in my drawer to take it. (Or would you rather I took it from my desktop Fedora Silverblue daily driver?)
tsuica
@aral That's funny coming from an iOS screenshot.
Aral Balkan
@tsuica Oh, I thought it was only Google. Thanks, I’m so new at this stuff, it’s always nice to have some random ‘dude being a guy’ to explain things to me.
I’ll see you later, giggles.
tsuica
@aral I was making a point of how surveillance is not a Google-specific thing. It's a mega-corpo thing, Apple included.
Regarding the "Google apps", FairPhone gives you the option to use these apps if you have (or want) to. It comes with Android stock, yeah, but you can also use a non-Google, non-tracking OS with it, which is more than I can say about iPhones. They're doing a hell of a lot more than Apple is regarding e-waste, repairability and sustainability.
So yeah, it's pretty damn funny.
Aral Balkan
@noodlejetski But why would I? FairPhone is an ethical company and if they think Google is at least as ethical as they are and include their apps, why would I want a phone without them?
noodlejetski :verified_gay:
@aral they already sell a niche product, and providing software without Google Play Store would sadly make it even more niche and less accessible for regular customers.
luckily, you don't have to install a custom ROM on your own, you can buy the same phone from Murena, which provides a degoogled ROM: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5-fr/
Aral Balkan
@mateitudor So I guess they’ll implement the move away from Google after they’ve scaled and exited. Because apparently they recently took venture capital.
mateitudor
@aral talked to them too & i hate google with a passion but i see that in this phase they just wanted to appeal to a broader public... and you can (and i will) #degoogle it.
Beeks
@aral so you prefer they simply not make a phone? Or that they take an absurd amount of VC money to try and enter an owned market?
I understand and agree Google sucks, but so does child labor. They can't do magic, they've got to get customers first and the market (including myself) is ignorant and lazy. We either like Coke or Pepsi. We aren't switching to RC Cola.
Aral Balkan
@Beeks I’d hate to burst your bubble but…
https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978891238384918
(I actually only just found out myself.)
Aral Balkan
@commownde Why would anyone need to install an alternative OS? Are you saying there’s something wrong with Google Android and with Google’s apps?
Because FairPhone is an ethical company and if there were any ethical issues with Google or its apps (e.g., if they spied on you or if they were surveillance capitalists, for example) FairPhone would never include them on their ethical phones and promote their use.
Kooperative Commown
@mycelium @aral @murena And we're happy to help you install your alternative OS as well. @commownfr
Mycelium
@murena offers fairphones with alternative operating systems, and you can even lease them from @commownde
Aral Balkan
@mcv https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978864673373831
Read it again and attempt to understand the point being made.
mcv
@aral I thought you wanted a version without Google's apps?! Now it turns out you do have that option, pre-installed so you don't have to do it yourself, and that's still not good enough?
I don't understand you. Are you just here to bitch about people having the audacity to try to make phones environmentally less damaging?
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