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1. Embed this notice
   goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Saturday, 17-Jun-2023 20:29:44 JST goatsarah

   Ok, so I need to say something about the orcas, or rather the response to them, because this is pissing me off.

   There is a popular portrayal that they are somehow proxies for a class war hunting down and destroying the playthings of the rich, invading their habitat, and this is absolutely not what is happening.

   There are two types of vessel that can broadly be described as "yachts". The first type are the ones you're probably thinking of: things owned by multi millionaires who cruise about living a life of unattainable luxury. These vessels have price tags that start at 7 digits for a modest one, and go up from there. They are owned by multimillionaires, centi-millionaires, and billionaires, and they are completely and utterly immune from orca attack.

   This is because they are motor vessels. They steer by vectored thrust, or by directing propeller wash over a relatively small hydrofoil. As a result, there is nothing for the orcas to attack, and even if there was, these people don't like to be kept waiting on their way to Monaco or wherever. They have power plants the size of road haulage vehicles and can outrun the orcas.

   The second type, which are the boats that the orcas are attacking, are sailboats. These travel at about 5 knots, which is the cruising speed of an orca, and have huge rudders because they need to balance turning forces from the sails that power the boats. The smallest boats that are capable of sailing in the waters where these animals are have rudders comparable in size to an adult human. The orcas seem to regard these as prizes and love detaching them.

   While the very rich sometimes do buy these kind of boats, they are not the typical person who does so. Most of them are bought second hand, and they have very long lives (a lot from the 1970s are still in perfectly good condition). They are generally bought for the price of a used car, or less A lot of people live on them and pay for mooring and maintenance fees by doing casual labour. This is still cheaper than renting a one bedroom flat in a lot of Europe.

   I live in the area where these animals operate. Friends of friends have been attacked. They aren't "yachties", they're just people with day jobs who have enough disposable income to invest in a hobby they enjoy.

   So either, best case, you are gloating at people of modest means facing a salvage and repair bill that they can't afford and is more than the value of the boat, or potentially you are laughing at terrified people watching their home and everything they own get sent to the bottom of the ocean by one of the most sadistic predators on earth, and who will then have to get in the sea with these predators which, if they're lucky, will decide to leave them to drown.

   This doesn't make you an online class warrior, or the left-wing equivalent of an edge-lord. It just makes you an arsehole.

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Greenfield (adamgreenfield@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 02:38:32 JST Adam Greenfield

     in reply to

     @goatsarah Oooh, trying to introduce nuance and insight into the conversation, once a memetic package has achieved escape velocity – a bold move! You have my sympathies.

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   • Embed this notice
     Mo Edray (moedray@mindly.social)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 04:52:07 JST Mo Edray

     in reply to

     @goatsarah I’m innocent! Just my nature. . .

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   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 04:54:26 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Dutch1889
     @FinalCall Because they’re not. Fuck off.
   • Embed this notice
     Dutch1889 (finalcall@universeodon.com)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 04:54:27 JST Dutch1889

     in reply to

     @goatsarah
     Anthropomorphizing their nature as sadistic is par. Not once did you say they may be protecting their own .

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 05:10:43 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     Dear god, after I make it perfectly clear why I think some people are arseholes, it seems they really want to demonstrate that, yes, they are arseholes.

     Still, server block is a thing.

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 05:55:17 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • _jayrope
     @jrp Oh look, another arsehole wants a server block.
   • Embed this notice
     _jayrope (jrp@hub.kliklak.net)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 05:55:19 JST _jayrope

     in reply to
     @Sarah Brown It seems it doesn't matter who runs what boats, taking too much space around Gibraltar. Fact is, we - humans - take wayyy too much space anywhere.
     So i applaud orcas fighting for their space as much as any other non-human lifeform claiming back, what is theirs.
     Who gives a fuck about boats? Only us.
   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 05:56:59 JST goatsarah

     in reply to
     Can’t fucking help themselves. Seriously.
   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 07:44:32 JST goatsarah

     in reply to
     Anybody else want to leave an arsehole reply? Got anything you enjoy doing? Is it utterly consumption neutral? Maybe you should be chased by a fucking tiger while doing it? No? Good. Then fuck off.
   • Embed this notice
     Aearil (aearil@soc.punktrash.club)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 19:42:27 JST Aearil

     in reply to
     @goatsarah Thank you! As a sailor it always physically hurts seeing a sailboat being crippled or sunk :(
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   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 20:25:29 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Russ Garrett
     • bebatjof
     @russss @bebatjof Pretty sure there were initial reports of it happening in 2019
   • Embed this notice
     Russ Garrett (russss@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 20:25:30 JST Russ Garrett

     in reply to

     • bebatjof

     @bebatjof @goatsarah one of the theories is that they were primarily annoyed at the fishing boats but they found sailboats more enjoyable to attack, and it became more of a play/bonding thing.

     Interestingly this behaviour started in mid-2020, after boat volumes reduced due to covid lockdowns. I wonder if they thought they could make the boats go away again.

   • Embed this notice
     bebatjof (bebatjof@strangeobject.space)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 20:25:32 JST bebatjof

     in reply to

     @goatsarah very interesting thanks. It would make sense to me if they'd attack fishing boats. (and, in that case, they would be harming the wrong class as well, but I would still be cheering them on?)

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 20:45:45 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Russ Garrett
     • bebatjof
     @russss @bebatjof Indeed. Absolutely certain I first heard of this happening in sailing community forums before Covid though.
   • Embed this notice
     Russ Garrett (russss@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2023 20:45:47 JST Russ Garrett

     in reply to

     • bebatjof

     @goatsarah @bebatjof says 2020 here:

     https://www.orcaiberica.org/en/antecedentes

     I remember reading a paper about it but I can't find it now...

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   • Embed this notice
     Marq ⚛️ (marq@toot.community)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 02:56:18 JST Marq ⚛️

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛

     @fedops @goatsarah

     Humans are animals. Orcas are known to engage in sadistic behaviors in contrast to making clean kills. They know the difference.

     Now, what we do with that knowledge lies on a different decision tree.

     goatsarah likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     fedops 💙💛 (fedops@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 02:56:19 JST fedops 💙💛

     in reply to

     @goatsarah nice lecture. However, there are no sadistic predators. This is the kind of anthropomorphic BS that currently takes a huge toll on the shark population and leads so-called humans to eliminate lots of species over the centuries. Please stop projecting human traits onto animals - they don't deserve it.

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 02:59:34 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Marq ⚛️

     @marq @fedops Yup. The idea that we are uniquely, amongst all animals, able to engage in sadistic cruelty is bizarre to me. It also flies in the face of direct observation.

     At least they’re not as bad as their close relative: the bottlenose dolphin. Now they can really be prone to being utter bastards.

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 09:41:50 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Marq ⚛️
     • jeanoappleseed

     @jeanoappleseed @marq @fedops The pods are now being tagged and information on their whereabouts is being communicated through. Boat owners are also increasingly collaborating to report attacks and their locations in real time, and there are apps that show it. It’s getting easier to just not be where they are.

     Hopefully as we get better at avoiding them, they will start to forget about their stupid little rudder game.

     If not, then I suspect things are going to get messy. The attacks in the strait are happening close to shore (how can they not? It’s narrow). The ones in Biscay in the winter and autumn are much further out, and there’s not so much oversight of what goes on out there. In previous years, it’s been suggested that some of the encounters in Biscay have ended very badly for the orcas, although details are scarce because nobody wants to get in trouble.

   • Embed this notice
     jeanoappleseed (jeanoappleseed@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 09:41:51 JST jeanoappleseed

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Marq ⚛️

     @goatsarah @marq @fedops how do you suggest this behavior by the orcas be stopped?

   • Embed this notice
     legumancer Davy (legumancer@tech.lgbt)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Jun-2023 18:15:12 JST legumancer Davy

     in reply to

     @goatsarah I think sadistic is anthropomorphizing, but the rest of this is accurate. My husband and I lived on a 1990s sailboat for a few years. She was technically a "yacht" because any recreational vessel is a yacht (and it's still classed as recreational if you live there), but we also got turned away from repair yards because they "only work on yachts" (the other, fancy boat definition).

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Jun-2023 18:15:12 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • legumancer Davy
     @legumancer I’ve seen videos of them playing volleyball with seals before killing and eating them, and obviously having a great time doing it. If the shoe fits …
   • Embed this notice
     legumancer Davy (legumancer@tech.lgbt)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Jun-2023 18:19:39 JST legumancer Davy

     in reply to

     @goatsarah actually yeah I guess that's a fair point.

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   • Embed this notice
     Acorn Squashbuckler (acornsquashbuckler@tech.lgbt)'s status on Thursday, 22-Jun-2023 01:53:02 JST Acorn Squashbuckler

     in reply to

     @goatsarah Thanks for this insight! It's really helped me understand what's going on with the Orcas and boats, and why it's a problem. I've thought about this post a number of times since seeing it a few days ago, so I wanted to come back and thank you.

     I also appreciate your insight in one of the replies – that there's tagging, tracking, and communication going on to combat the problem and avoid encounters. I find that really interesting and resourceful.

     goatsarah likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Thursday, 22-Jun-2023 01:54:07 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Acorn Squashbuckler
     @AcornSquashbuckler It’s already paid dividends. We were notified last night that one pod has started migrating west. Before, the first we’d have known about it was when boats were suddenly attacked off Faro. Now we know to stay away.
   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 02:23:58 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Noodlemaz

     @noodlemaz You may not think playing volleyball with seals before killing and eating them isn't saidstic, but if so, you and I have very different definitions of that word.

     Lots of dolphins in general are, let's be honest, bastards. Orcas aren't the worst dolphins, but they are certainly up there.

     If you think that enjoying inflicting pain and suffering, and killing for enjoyment, is something that is unique to humans, then you're a fool.

   • Embed this notice
     Noodlemaz (noodlemaz@med-mastodon.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 02:23:59 JST Noodlemaz

     in reply to

     @goatsarah I was fully with you until 'sadistic predators', this is a ridiculous anthropomorphisation of *a predator*, a highly intelligent animal, and one that's had many of its populations decimated by humans (if not the ones currently under attack).

     Appreciate the clarification (see also: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cty6MijIXgR/?igshid=MjAxZDBhZDhlNA== though beware loud music) but would also appreciate avoiding demonising them even further for a behaviour they've picked up recently. Many cetaceans are injured by boats yearly.

   • Embed this notice
     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 02:48:44 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • Noodlemaz

     @noodlemaz Yes, people call cats sadistic for torturing animals.

     And orcas absolutely kill for pleasure, without eating.

     *plonk*

   • Embed this notice
     Noodlemaz (noodlemaz@med-mastodon.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 02:48:46 JST Noodlemaz

     in reply to

     @goatsarah if you think you know the minds of predatory animals, perhaps you're overreaching?

     Do people call cats sadistic for playing with their kills?
     Play is a valuable tool for learning and teaching young in the wild.

     Humans are the only known species that kills purely for the heck of it. Orcas have never killed a human in the wild, and the animals they kill, they eat. Yes sometimes they have 'fun' with it - that doesn't make it "sadism", a human... pastime.

   • Embed this notice
     vga256 (vga256@dialup.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2023 19:28:27 JST vga256

     in reply to

     @goatsarah thanks for this. i've been quietly grumbling for weeks saying the exact same thing to myself.

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