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1. Embed this notice
   Damon Outlaw  (damonoutlaw@moth.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:19 JST Damon Outlaw 

   I do believe more #mastodon users should use #BlueSky there’s a lot that the team and users in general can learn from those in the #fediverse and clear up misconceptions

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:12 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @mekkaokereke @supernovae @damonoutlaw Once again, you have excellent insights. There’s a few things I wonder about, though:

     1. What will happen if Bluesky is impermanent, as Jack Dorsey hopes it will be?

     2. What will happen once federation occurs with Bluesky, and we start seeing the same HOA problems that are occurring on the rest of the Fediverse?

     At that moment, Bluesky can’t control things—and they don’t even want to.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:13 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae

     @supernovae @damonoutlaw @atomicpoet

     People like to pretend that this dynamic doesn't exist, so they try to skip right over the Black women part, and recruit the celebrities, journalists, and politicians directly. But it don't work like that.

     I've said many times, that the social media network where young Black and brown women feel comfortable and safe to create, is the one that grows. No exceptions.

     Tik-Tok (Black women dances)

     Vine (Black comedy shorts)

     Twitter (Black Twitter)

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:15 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae

     @supernovae @damonoutlaw @atomicpoet

     The book "Don't make me think!" comes to mind.

     Tech people, especially OSS folk, expect non-tech folk to do way more work than is realistic. Our decision to underinvest and under-prioritize both marketing and user experience design, is directly responsible for people choosing different options.

     But rather than internalize this as "How can we onboard better / explain value better / increase safety?" We tend to externalize it as "Why don't they get it?"

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:15 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae

     @supernovae @damonoutlaw @atomicpoet

     A gross over simplification:

     * Onboarding onto Mastodon sucks for Black women. It's a terrible experience. Awful, unsafe, unfun, unpredictable.

     * Being on Mastodon sucks for Black women. HOA racism.

     * Onboarding onto BlueSky, and being on BlueSky, is better for Black women.

     * Black women are culturally relevant. They're 6 to 12 months in front of everyone. Celebrities and politicians follow Black women.

     * Journalists follow celebrities and politicians.

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:16 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw @atomicpoet

     My letter writing campaign didn't start or end with AOC and I guess i should have cited a different example as it was me reaching out to pop culture folks in hopes to start the conversation.

     Heck, it often doesn't even work on here ;)

     Hey, i have search.

     "Mastodon doesn't have search!!!"

     it's open source - anyone can add this search - here is the code.

     "Mastodon doesn't have search"

     I feel like i'm limited because people think mastodon/fediverse is only what Eugen or someone else thinks it is.

     I can assure you one thing - the founders idea of BSKY isn't the same Idea as everyone who uses it.

     Why do we do that to ourselves here?

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:17 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae

     @damonoutlaw @supernovae @atomicpoet

     Every major reason that AOC and other celebrities that care about Black and brown users are on BlueSky and not on Mastodon, have been covered here, by myself, and by others. Multiple times.

     Many of us here opt not to do any of the very basic things that would help people choose Mastodon, then invent reasons why people prefer BlueSky over Mastodon.

     These invented reasons for a pre-determined projection of what Fediverse people think these users want. 🤷🏿♂️

   • Embed this notice
     Damon Outlaw  (damonoutlaw@moth.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:18 JST Damon Outlaw 

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @atomicpoet @mekkaokereke are both on there and have several times attempted to educate people

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:03:19 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     @damonoutlaw you think folks on bluesky are amenable to mastodon? I always figured they had some beef i was never aware of.

     For example, why would AOC join over there but not here? is it because no one told her? heh. I reached out to her campaign team and drafted an email and even wrote a handwritten letter and never got a response.

     Seems like something i'm missing

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:06:55 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @mekkaokereke @supernovae @damonoutlaw For what it’s worth, it seems that folks on Bluesky are becoming more and more excited about decentralization. Which makes me happy. This is absolutely the way social media should go.

     But there will be an unavoidable price. And that is communities will need to arise to do the moderating. And these moderators will probably be volunteers.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:14:52 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @mekkaokereke @supernovae @damonoutlaw One thing positive about Bluesky is that the Black community has already developed a rich culture there.

     But things can change on a dime.

     At one time, marginalized communities defined the culture on Mastodon.

     There was a time that autistic people were a big chunk of the Fediverse (I’m one of them). There were lots of LGBT, disabled, neurodivergent.

     Now things have changed.

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:18:06 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @atomicpoet @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw someone just shared me a link saying the opposite ;)

     https://mastodon.social/@GWillow/110333962498079368

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:18:06 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw This is true too, and I’ve noted that. But nevertheless, I’m having more conversations with people about decentralization, where Bluesky says they want to go, and the whole ecosystem that exists outside Bluesky.

     Less people are hostile now than they were a few weeks ago.

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:24:50 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @atomicpoet @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw as you mentioned before, part of our difficulty now is having the clash of cultures where this prior culture resists new ones.

     Feels like it's finally in a cooling off phase with some minor flare ups here and there .

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 02:24:50 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw Yep, and the problem is that some people became religious about certain cultural practices, and that ended up with the HOA aspect Mekka alludes to.

     For 8 years, Mastodon (mostly) had a culture that created a safe haven for certain marginalized groups.

     Then in November 2022, that culture tried to enforce the rules and they suddenly no longer applied.

     Even worse, the rules proved oppressive.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:00 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:
     • David Slifka

     @davidslifka @supernovae @damonoutlaw @mekkaokereke David, I personally think emphasizing Mastodon over the rest of the Fediverse is a tactical mistake. So I'm just going to suggest this.

     There are several members of the Black community that are working on their own implementations of Fediverse apps -- both server and client software. I've seen demos. They looks fantastic.

     I think it's important to boost what these devs are doing.

   • Embed this notice
     David Slifka (davidslifka@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:01 JST David Slifka

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @damonoutlaw @mekkaokereke @atomicpoet Thanks for the kind words! But tbh I don't think I or many others deserve much credit here. My takeaway from the list is that yes, there is >0 happening on most items (though definitely not all); but what progress exists is still nascent. I'd love more people getting involved to work on these issues, but most of that needs to flow through Mastodon itself I think. Would love other ideas though.

   • Embed this notice
     David Slifka (davidslifka@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:03 JST David Slifka

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @damonoutlaw @mekkaokereke @atomicpoet Here's a list I put together of things I read and heard in case it's helpful. Haven't shared publicly til now, but feel free to share if helpful.

     Looking back at it in the context of this discussion, it clarifies why some people would feel more comfortable on a nascent BlueSky than on Mastodon as it exists today.

     https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ihmQgucBmEdEEuPPrbUiI4GBBDCCqucXniXdqTaaLkc/edit?usp=sharing

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:03 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:
     • David Slifka

     @davidslifka @damonoutlaw @mekkaokereke @atomicpoet Yeah, these are all things already being worked on, in progress, being codified and tracked - by amazing folks such as yourself :)

     I wish we could scale it a bit better and work on it in the open somehow so people could see what is going on.

     or find a way to make it more transparent in a meaniful way.

     I know lots of us toot about this nonstop - but it still feels like people thinking nothing is happening

   • Embed this notice
     Damon Outlaw  (damonoutlaw@moth.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:04 JST Damon Outlaw 

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @supernovae @mekkaokereke @atomicpoet makes sense.The thing is safety is multilayered. It’s not as simple as a block. There’s a number of reasons why minority women do not feel safe. It’s always better to start there. Engage in good faith, be willing to be silent and just listen. It’s not about us or our feelings, it’s about them being heard and valued.

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:04 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @damonoutlaw @mekkaokereke @atomicpoet

     I'm listening.

     I'm listening in 10 places and being told 10 different things.

     If i could narrow that down to a few things we could champion that help all 10 places, that would be better for my sanity and exhaustion levels :)

   • Embed this notice
     supernovae (supernovae@universeodon.com)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 03:58:05 JST supernovae

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • mekka okereke :verified:

     @mekkaokereke @damonoutlaw @atomicpoet

     I don't dispute this dynamic whatsoever.

     How does anyone stand out and create a safe space for people and be recognized for such when we do nothing of the sorts?

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 06:07:44 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Darnell Clayton :verified:
     • supernovae
     • mekka okereke :verified:
     • David Slifka

     @mekkaokereke @davidslifka @supernovae @damonoutlaw That’s big news! I’m already donating to his project, Fipamo without even knowing he was working on his own *key.

     By the way, have you spoken with @darnell? He has a lot of expertise about different aspects of the Fediverse. He also runs a #Misskey server, and is also familiar with its forks.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-May-2023 06:07:45 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • supernovae
     • David Slifka

     @atomicpoet @davidslifka @supernovae @damonoutlaw

     David! Great distillation/ collation of these issues!
     ♥️🙏🏿

     @are0h made the same point about not focusing purely on Mastodon, but needing to start small, so his initial plan focuses on Mastodon and [miss/calc]Key.