@jeffcliff @iceloops @sun There's no real way to make hydrogen cheap. We don't do anything at scale where it's a byproduct we could capture.

Desalination *maybe* in the future but that's still hampered by the cost of energy to do the desalination in the first place.

Storing energy in batteries will always be cheaper than using energy to make hydrogen, then back to less energy than you started with. People don't get this. They'll say "oh we can do all this solar to run the hydrogen operation" -- ok great but you make more money by putting the solar into batteries.

AIUI You don't want to make hydrogen from saltwater either, and we have concerns about our long term access to fresh water...

I have a bunch of links of hydrogen operations that exist, their issues, nobody buying it except for small tests, hydrogen trains in Europe canceling (Germany I think?), etc