@atompunkray @abolisyonista het just to clarify something to both of you, uncontrolled collapse isn’t degrowth. Degrowth specifically refers to a *planned* reduction of human impacts on the planet (and therefore reduction of energy throughput and throughput of certain materials). If a reduction happens and it’s not planned, that’s not degrowth, it’s just … reduction. A recession. A collapse. Take your pick, but degrowth isn’t going to come “whether we like it or not”.