@lxo @light @quasi @Gnomeshatecheese

> assuming she's not a made-up propaganda tool

No, victims of male violence are not "made up propaganda tools." This is an awful thing to say.

> I'm arguing nobody should be forced to face danger to change clothes

As confirmed by statistics from the UK, the changes you propose do as a matter of fact force women to face higher risk of sexual assault.

> requiring women to go make themselves more vulnerable in spaces where they're separated from their safe company where aggressors could be hiding

This is a nonsensical fantasy situation.

There is no such thing as men secretly sneaking into female-only spaces to wait for an individual woman to enter alone so he can pounce on her, which would be thwarted if only men were allowed into there as well.

Maybe such a thing has happened before in extremely rare cases, but even then, how would unisex rooms even solve this? Even such a psychopathic plan would be easier to commit with unisex rooms: The man can walk in freely and doesn't have to sneak around. Then he just needs to wait for a moment where a woman enters and nobody else is around. And the woman won't even be immediately alerted by his presence because it's a unisex space.

Had it been a female only space, then not only would the man need to sneak in unnoticed to begin with; women entering would also be immediately on alert as they see or hear him, since it's a female only space.

I think you're tying yourself into knots trying to come up with a reason why unisex spaces are safer, when it is simply not so.

> now let's think of a trans woman who is small and not particularly strong. does such a woman deserve a safe space? or is she not worthy of it? is she under a lower risk of violence in a men's space, in a women's space, or in a shared space?

Small and feminine men (some of whom might "identify as a woman") deserve safety as well, yes. Is their safety improved by abolishing female-only spaces? How?

> how about a trans man? does such a man deserve a safe space? where would he be safer?

Women who identify as men deserve safety as well, yes. Is their safety improved by abolishing female-only spaces?

> people have no easy way of assessing one's sexual orientation, just like they have no easy way of assessing one's assigned sex.

We can easily assess the sex of around 99% of everyone, by looks and voice.

And as I've already explained before: If a man genuinely passes as a woman, then no women would be bothered by him using the women's room anyway. The problem solves itself. What you're campaigning for is that men who look obviously like men should be allowed into women's spaces and that women should have no right to complain.

> what can be more evidently noticed is the gender expression, which would be fine for telling men and women apart. but that's not the categorization you're arguing for, is it?

No, a man putting on a dress and makeup is still easy to tell apart from a woman with the same style. Look at the photos I sent earlier.

A woman wearing trousers, having a buzz cut, and not using makeup doesn't make her look like a man.

The "gender expression" of a person has no relevance to this topic at all, really.