@pernia @zer0unplanned @Doll @NonPlayableClown @Wiz @alexmussolini88 @colonelj @fknretardlol @technolyze

>Iran is going to build a nuke, we need to stop them!!!

Not quite what I said. I said I don't think there's a problem with stopping them. You have to distinguish between "Are there incentives that make sense?", "Is this useful from a pragmatic standpoint, given the incentives of the actors?", "Is this a thing that will happen?", "What is the likely outcome if it does happen?", "What other things might happen?", and "Is this a moral good?" The problem with your argument is you don't distinguish between those and you start and stop with "oh noes the Jews". If Israel somehow controlled the US government, what would you expect to happen? You take it as a given that they *do* and you take it as a given that this is a moral wrong and you draw your inferences from there. You don't consider the other questions, and I think the moral question is boring and pointless and it invites emotional investment. (Look at this thread if you disagree with that; look at your own responses.) You get your geopolitics from fedi, and that's about as goddamn stupid as getting them from CNN.

As far as the nukes, North Korea might have been amenable to disassembling their nuclear program; they are not ever going to do that, because of Libya. We asked Khaddafi to disassemble his nuclear program and we promised no regime change in exchange. A few years later, we're launching cruise missiles at his house while he is literally sodomized by rebar on international TV as part of his lynching, a humiliating and painful death. Kim Jong-il was in power at the time and grooming his son for the role and after they see that, there's a 0% chance that North Korea gives up its nuclear program. Libya was the biggest foreign-policy blunder of the 21st century. That is, unless you're a megachurch boomer:

> Pete might just have the worldview of an evangelical megachurch boomer.

That is the dumbest shit you have said yet. McCain, a senator during Bush's invasion of Iraq, said of the war that the era of "America propping up dictators" was over. That was the articulation of the disastrous Middle East policy and is the cause of all the shit you're whining about and this is essentially a mop-up of the Clinton/Bush/Obama neolib fuckup. You're giving the boomer line, because you don't think too hard about anything and you don't pay attention to anything and you complain about poasties while repeating *every* one of their lines.