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   iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 04:28:12 JST iced depresso
   > godot goes corpo
   :blobcatpain: reminder that we may never have nice things
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 04:28:10 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     @icedquinn This is all you need.

     https://www.libsdl.org/

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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 05:18:19 JST 寮

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     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn As Xianc said, SDL is the way to go as far as having nice things goes.
     Like how GTK 2.0 for desktop GUI, ncurses for terminal TUI, and languages like C, PHP, Go, and Lua without a framework.
     Even PHP frameworks like Laravel feel more and more corpo-ish as it's getting more popular, all while real PHP will remain free (as in freedom) forever.
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 05:37:34 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • 寮

     @ryo @icedquinn Just ignore the fact that I program games in C# using MonoGame. But yeah, frameworks are much better than engines. It feels so satisfying implementing levels, physics, AI, etc "from scratch".

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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 05:52:18 JST 寮

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     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn I'm more a type of developer that wouldn't get passed the library level (on the scale of "from 0" → "library" → "framework" → "engine", the more forward, the more bloat).
     I'd love to make video games from 0, but I feel like that'd be overkill.
     At least making web apps and CLI apps from 0 is very doable.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 05:57:05 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • xianc78
     @ryo @xianc78 i wrote my cinematic script system so its easy to move between engines but i still have to go deal with adding the demo project stuff :ablobcatbongokeyboard:
     
     was sorta hoping to be further along a project by now though. trying to get odd jobs online didn't really pan out.
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:17:29 JST xianc78

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     • 寮

     @ryo @icedquinn This guy managed to do it. He even has a full tutorial on how to do it.

     https://handmadehero.org/

     Honestly, people using these engines need to ask themselves if they really need all those bloated features that engines provide. Does your game really need to be in 3D? Does it really need VR support? Does it really need RTX graphics?

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     Wolfi (wolfi@gleasonator.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:20:32 JST Wolfi

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:
     love2d has much lower performance, especially if you want to support a web version as well
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     applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2: (applejack@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:20:32 JST applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • Wolfi

     @wolfi @icedquinn @xianc78 It's still very fast and significantly easier to use

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     applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2: (applejack@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:20:34 JST applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • Wolfi

     @wolfi @icedquinn @xianc78 Or https://love2d.org/

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     Wolfi (wolfi@gleasonator.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:20:35 JST Wolfi

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     or https://raylib.com/ if you want something easier to use
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     Wolfi (wolfi@gleasonator.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:21:23 JST Wolfi

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:
     @applejack @icedquinn @xianc78 nope, i had performance issues with love2d. Especially when exporting for a web version haha the game became unusable.
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     applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2: (applejack@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:43:04 JST applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • Wolfi

     @wolfi @icedquinn @xianc78 LuaJIT is the gold standard for JIT compilers, written in assembly and optimised relentlessly

     It's used in high performence application for game logic with C side rendering (like Löve) in games/engines like the CryEngine, Factorio, Minetest, Fable, or WOW

     Even plain POC Lua makes up "substantial amounts" (according to the email POC got) of games like Grim Fandango. Basically all of Tim Schafer's games use Lua and were one of the first adopters of it
     https://www.lua.org/history.html (ctrl-f Grim Fandango)

     It 100% meets the performance requirements of games. Especially games that are the scale you'd make it with something like RayLib

     You did something wrong like loading an image inside a fast loop. My games, even the particles, works on my 4gb ARM Pinebook pro without any slight hint of slowdown

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     Wolfi (wolfi@gleasonator.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:43:05 JST Wolfi

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     • xianc78
     • applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:
     @applejack @icedquinn @xianc78 no matter what optimaztion you simply won't meet the performance you can get using something like c or zig. I've reimplemented the code i was doing in zig and it just runs so much better. Especially on older hardware
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     applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2: (applejack@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:43:06 JST applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • Wolfi

     @wolfi @icedquinn @xianc78 Professional games with very active graphics, physics, animations, and particles have dirt requirements. Chances are you were doing something wrong

     https://store.steampowered.com/app/323850/Move_or_Die/

     The webexporter is 3rd party and I think uses a JS VM for Lua. I've tried it for my stuff and it didn't wanna work

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     Wrongthink (wrongthink@cdrom.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 06:46:56 JST Wrongthink

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • xianc78

     @xianc78 @ryo @icedquinn That’s mostly what one of my favorites ended up doing. It runs so well on anything I tried it on and just uses SDL and few other libraries.

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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 07:36:50 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     @xianc78 @icedquinn 3D is nice to have, I think you'd even stand out as an indie if you do 3D.
     But I know it's extremely hard unless you have some insane 3D mathematics skills.
     
     I'll bookmark this site, will come in handy when I will make a game again, as last time I did was a decade ago, and it was in Unity too.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 07:42:44 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • xianc78
     @ryo @xianc78 i implemented the suite of linear algebra to do basic 2d/3d stuff. and some projective geometric algebra.
     
     it wasn't all that fun.
     
     business doesn't really care about anything other than shipping the product. so there's a limited amount of effort that is worthwhile when it comes to things like rewriting the world to use projective algebra because its intellectually pure but the somahead at the end of the steam sale couldn't care less.
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     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 07:50:53 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • 寮

     @ryo @icedquinn I've taken a 3D graphics class back in college. It's pretty simple if you know linear algebra. The professor even wrote his own 3D renderer that outputs to a JFrame image object. For my senior project the following year, I was tasked to rewrite it in JavaScript and port it to HTML5 canvas.

     Honestly, the hardest part is the clipping and accounting for the fact that object behind the camera will appear in front of the camera and upside down unless you specifically tell the program not to render them.

     However, we were never taught how to map textures or even shade polygons. I wanted to add that feature in my JS port but I didn't have time.

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     applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2: (applejack@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 15:22:44 JST applejack 🇮🇸:hitlergrin2:

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • xianc78

     @ryo @icedquinn @xianc78 GPU 3d graphics from scratch is doable for the average dev

     Mostly basically boilerplate
     https://learnopengl.com/Getting-started/OpenGL

     3d physics from scratch would be a fair bit harder. If you did 2d gameplay but 3d graphics it would be sane

     This is basically the opengl tutorial + math library (basically copying equations) + assimp (making your own OBJ importer is easy tho) + my code

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Sunday, 21-Aug-2022 07:01:52 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @icedquinn@blob.cat What's wrong with free software making money?