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   roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 07:36:15 JST roko's basilisk
   > come for the history lessons
   > stay for the steady and inevitable decline of my mental health as the old adage, "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it", is a sad cope for the reality that knowledge will not save us
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 07:43:51 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     @bajax my strange obsession with everything south and west of the Arkansas River from 1753 to 1899. The Spanish and Indian Wars. The depravity of man, the mundanity of the worst things imaginable.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 07:43:52 JST bajax

     in reply to
     @vii what history is it?
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 07:46:49 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • adequate_birb
     • bajax
     @adequate_birb @bajax maaaaaybe
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     adequate_birb (adequate_birb@decayable.ink)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 07:46:50 JST adequate_birb

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     • bajax
     Cormac McCarthy appreciator, mayhaps?
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     After-Rh (newmodel@shin.mugicha.club)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:25:28 JST After-Rh

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     I've been coming around to the idea that knowledge isn't really that useful
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     Dymphna (f0x@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:25:30 JST Dymphna

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     • After-Rh
     @newmodel @vii knowledge makes me happy and that in and of itself is very useful to me
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     After-Rh (newmodel@shin.mugicha.club)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:29:25 JST After-Rh

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     • Dymphna
     Learning is cool, fun, enjoyable but big but, it shapes your thought and body in strange ways.
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     Lichelord Godfrey (lichelordgodfrey@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:30:13 JST Lichelord Godfrey

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     you can learn all you want but if you learn incorrectly and try to apply them you will probably not get what you want.
     
     you could be even being taught incorrectly on purpose, and the person/persons doing it might not even be aware of this themselves because they, too, were taught incorrectly.
     
     After all, there's another old adage: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice simply makes it permanent."
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:30:47 JST bajax

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     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @newmodel @f0x @vii like in what way?
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:31:33 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel Learning statistics biases you toward quantiatative reasoning about things that cannot be quantified, as an example.
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     Frank (frank@decayable.ink)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:32:17 JST Frank

     in reply to

     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh

     Shush your damnable lies.

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     Dymphna (f0x@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:32:18 JST Dymphna

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     • After-Rh
     @newmodel @vii oh for surem knowledge is almost inherently dangerous.
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     Dymphna (f0x@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:52:56 JST Dymphna

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @vii @newmodel well remember we talked, when talking about religion, about pursuit of knowledge causing humanities descent into sinful ways. It's evidenced by people who think they know better, people who become ego'd (in the literal sense, not the psychological theory sense), etc..
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:53:11 JST bajax

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     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @f0x @vii @newmodel I think at some point we don't have an option to remain ignorant anymore, like as a species. Nuclear weapons, warfare, psychological manipulation just exists, and bad people will have access to it. They won't agree to toss that information away, especially if it gives them access to some kind of power.
     
     But at the same time, knowing everything that's out there, what's possible for those who desire control to accomplish with only very subtle manipulation, and how little there is that you can do about it working on other people... I don't know that it's done me any good, considering I am completely alone in my understanding where I live.
     
     But it still seems risky to just leave it with the least trustworthy people to use and abuse however they want, and not be aware of what kinds of things may act on oneself. idk.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 08:55:15 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel That sounds great in theory, but in practice you have to fit learning in ordered time; there’s a reason college is such a good financial trap for people. Is it wise to give people a copy of Kierkegaard if they haven’t been taught or learned themselves to distinguish or compartmentalize between their own thoughts and the thoughts of others once they’re in the same brain? That isn’t something that just comes naturally to people, it takes practice and if you didn’t practice it in your teens it would be very easy to think you know everything by reading the 1800’s equivalent of Death Cab for Cutie
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:14:07 JST bajax

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     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel rofl I don't really even know what death cab for cutie is like-- kinda banal you mean?
     
     but you're right, I did used to see what you're describing in a lot of people who got big into philosophy when I was in high school. It always bothered me, though I couldn't put it into words-- they always had this feeling that they finally had gotten things figured out, and they started using the basic ideas and even the language of whatever philosophy they're reading this week as a framework to hang all their thoughts on. Meaning that when they evaluate their own intuitions, they just slot it in to some ready made structure-- with the result being that they accept the given framing of the argument by following the philosopher's established form.
     
     But I don't know that that's a permanent condition assuming they stay interested in the subject matter.
     
     So you think it's a problem of the way things are taught then?
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:17:17 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel I dunno. I have no faith in the standard education system because I was more than failed by it. But practice and experience has done everything for my own education; like, math was always easy in school because I had to already know the concepts to do programming stuff. But I was also one of those midwits when I was in my teens. This is how humans develop — slotting in personas and testing them out is part of the learning process and I wouldn’t want to shit on anyone for doing that. But it can happen much earlier, with much simpler first principles, so that later it doesn’t become pathological.
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     DickJohnson (dickjohnson@decayable.ink)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:17:56 JST DickJohnson

     in reply to

     • Frank
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     Knowledge is dangerous but retards are dangerouser.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:19:21 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel addendum: I wouldn’t get in the way of others mocking someone for quoting Nietzsche while trying to get laid, but I myself like observing humans learn and think.
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     Rusty Crab (rustycrab@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:23:39 JST Rusty Crab

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     • Lichelord Godfrey
     @lichelordgodfrey @vii "Practice makes permanent" is a good variation
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:27:01 JST bajax

     in reply to

     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel well that goes without saying-- I mean, the standard education system isn't meant to actually educate anyone is it?
     
     very much agree that psychological self-awareness and basic mindfulness should absolutely be taught to everyone.
     
     what kind of first principles are you thinking would be sufficient? and how early are you talking?
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:31:37 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel I think at 5 or 6 a child is ready to experience conundrum; children who recurse into questions of why should be presented with problems they can solve themselves, to answer their question. How you design your conundrum, and to what your child inquires about, are rested in the first principles you deem necessary. The protestants are actually quite amazing at this — the hymnals that everyone knows, the christian rock that became memes, the evangelical worship songs, they might have their cringe but they still accomplish their goals of (somewhat forcefully) walking you into thinking in those metaphors and first principles.
     
     I still have the song, “Count your blessings, count them one by one….” in my head to this day. Same with some hymns. Heavy-handed implementations of the same kind of practical learning.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:44:10 JST bajax

     in reply to

     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel so, symbolic, narrative type guided thinking exercises? songs, (non-digital) games, stories etc? kinda seems to me to be the biological role that all those things used to serve in human groups before we discovered commercialization.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:44:28 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel We're going to end up getting into my thoughts on the inability for humans to properly quantify non-scarce goods, and how macroeconomics and central economic planning have really deep and long-term side-effects on culture, even without going into Bernays. Biased incentives. But yes, oral traditions seem to be what we traded for birth control.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:50:56 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel
     
     Lemme give you a more direct answer, even though it's a weakly-contrived example.
     
     > Aunt Sev, why is the sky blue?
     < Hm. What colour do you think it should be?
     > *giggles* Purple!
     < But it is purple sometimes. When was the last time you saw a purple sky?
     > :lainshock: last night's sunset!
     < That's right. Now why would colours change when the sun changes angle? Is there somewhere else you can see purple in the sky?
     > I dunno where?
     < Oh, you know. You love these, you see them after the rain.
     > RAINBOWS!
     < And how do the colours spread out on the rainbow?
     > red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet!
     < That's right! Notice that blue is right there next to the purples? I wonder if that has something to do with it.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:54:21 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel Optics are a great first principle. Did wonders for the Greeks.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:56:11 JST bajax

     in reply to

     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel this is exactly the kind of thing my parents did with me lol. if anything it made it harder to do well in public school.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:58:21 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel Well there's your problem. School would have been in direct contradiction to your home development, and without conscious compensation your parents would be in a really tough position.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 09:59:06 JST bajax

     in reply to

     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel yep. I can still remember my mom pulling me through figuring out how the eye worked. I thought it must be sending out some kind of signal, until she showed me with a flashlight how light bounces off of things... Took me a few minutes to finally get it, "oh! light bounces off of things and hits your eye!"
     
     Think I was around 7.
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     Dymphna (f0x@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:03:34 JST Dymphna

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • After-Rh
     @vii @bajax @newmodel i'm still in conplete shock with how shitty the education system is. It's incredibly gotten worse. It enrages me.
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     DeadDrudge (jeddrudge@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:05:11 JST DeadDrudge

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     Damn, parents actually attempting to be a part of their child's educational process... Imagine that...
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:06:44 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @f0x @bajax @newmodel People who spend an inordinate time thinking about the intelligence of half of the population but never permits categorization of that data educate to make idiots into employees, not average-or-better intelligences into competitive intelligences. There are tenured and credentialed professors that believe wholeheartedly in what they do and the institutions they support and that support them, and do help others become competitive intelligences, but these days... these days that's more of a side-effect than the goal. "We need to move 4000 students" with very little distinguishing between those students.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:09:55 JST bajax

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     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel well, this is one of the things they did get right. made me an autodidact. but it totally ruined my ability to just do what I'm told when it seems stupid or counterproductive.
     
     eh, I wouldn't have been able to anyway, probably.
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     bajax (bajax@baj.ax)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:10:36 JST bajax

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     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @vii @f0x @newmodel It's almost like they can't even admit to themselves that different people have different capabilities.
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     roko's basilisk (vii@dsmc.space)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:10:36 JST roko's basilisk

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     @bajax @f0x @newmodel They made their very equal bed, and now they have to sleep in it after housekeeping phoned it in.
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     DeadDrudge (jeddrudge@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:11:45 JST DeadDrudge

     in reply to

     • bajax
     • Dymphna
     • After-Rh
     There is a conveyor belt to there, somewhere...
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     pepsi_man (pepsi_man@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 20-Apr-2026 10:14:30 JST pepsi_man

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     @vii
     >knowledge will not save us
     
     Mere knowledge is useless. You need a combination of knowledge and a willingness to act.
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