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   Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:48 JST Chris Trottier

   The state of nomadic identity on the Fediverse: it exists.

   But there's a fundamental problem with it.

   1. Apps that support nomadic identity are easy to use as far as nomadic identity is concerned, not so easy with everything else
   2. The most popular apps (like Mastodon) don't support nomadic identity, and they tend to be the easier Fediverse apps to use -- though not so easy for identity management

   (A request: Please Google "nomadic identity" if you don't know what this is.)

   • Embed this notice
     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:40 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet Hubzilla seems to have many advantages.
     
     ・Support for 4 protocols
     ・Written in a sane programming language (although using a framework and/or "modern way of developing", which sucks)
     ・Sane UI
     ・No JS required
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:41 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to
     No, I never cared to look into this. I like Hubzilla because I can hide away from ActivityPub and Fediverse and stay on the Zot network if and when I wish.
     
     I would not be happy seeing Mastodon and others invade that space.
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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:42 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC

     @FourOh-LLC Yeah, I know. But I've been told that the "nomad protocol" and the Streams app bridges ActivityPub and Zot6.

     Do you know anything about this?

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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:43 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to
     ActivityPub cannot implement nomadic identities, that is why Zot and Zap.
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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:44 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC

     @FourOh-LLC Yeah, see this is the other thing. Trying to find accurate information is like herding cats.

     Nevertheless, what I've been told is that Streams is an attempt to bridge Zot6 with ActivityPub.

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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:45 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to
     Zot and Zap are choices for Hubzilla protocol, Streams I do not know.
   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:46 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC

     @FourOh-LLC What about Zap and Streams?

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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 08:40:47 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to
     I run Hubzilla hubs, and its the only Fedi software I know that was designed specifically for nomadic identity.
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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 11:08:10 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet Masto is made in Ruby though.
     PHP 7 or newer is actually really good, it's only bad because 95% of PHP devs use some bloated general purpose framework combined with some copypasta'd soyce code from StackOverflow, and thus they don't understand their own code.
     But when it comes to the language itself, nothing bad about that.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 11:08:11 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     The fact that its using PhP is a big problem. Mastodon is superior in its choice for the software stack.
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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 13:32:04 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet Apart from the "machines that are offline part", I don't really know what the last sentence has to do with a web application being written in PHP.
     
     Kind of like saying "I hate it when butchers use knifes, because I'm just eating fried chicken from the local Family Mart, and therefore I need to give my pet dog some food by going on vacation to an exotic country, there's nothing wrong with kids jumping on my lap".
   • Embed this notice
     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 13:32:05 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     PhP has too many rapid rev rolls. There is noting wrong with following the Debian schedule, much of the upstream does it.
     
     This current 7.x to 8.x is especially painful to me, and going forward I am going to prefer software not using PhP.
     
     Sorry, I am just an end-user, my priorities are different from those who also code, using the bleeding edge, or whatever.
     
     On the production floor where I work there are still reflow ovens with Windows NT computers with 3.5" floppies and no USB. My priorities are for machines that are off-line to keep working until end of my world.
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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:00:38 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet Neither I said you hate it, I'm making a comparison like that simply because it makes no sense at all.
     All languages have drawbacks, including PHP, I don't deny that.
     
     When it comes to Python, apps written in it are not only zettaslow, they're always a dependency hell, and will break as soon as a dependency of a dependency of a dependency of a dependency of a library an application happens to be using gets updated, but the Python intepreter doesn't.
     And if you update the Python intepreter, there'll be other dependencies complaining.
     So the moment there's an update available, Python applications just collapse out of nowhere.
     Not as much of a problem on a nanny distro like Ubuntu, but on many others it's a major problem.
     
     As for syncing upgrade cycles with Debian, PHP gets upgraded only once a year, and that's just a minor version too.
     Major versions get updated once every X number of years, and everything else are just bugfix releases.
     Also, the Debian team is responsible for their packages being outdated, not the PHP team.
     That's why distributions like Artix and operating systems like OpenBSD are already on 8.2, whereas with Debian you'll need to be lucky if they'd even upgrade to 8.1 when Bookworm becomes stable.
     
     And if you want to use Debian, I'd at the very least recommend Devuan instead.
     It's the same distro, but without the severe dependency on SoystemD.
     Devuan 4 = Debian 11, Devuan 3 = Debian 10, Devuan 2 = Debian 9, Devuan 1 = Debian 8, and there's no equivelant to Debian 7 or older, simply because that was when Debian was actually good.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:00:40 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     I did not write I "hate it". I made a valid point, PhP must have some "drawbacks" if the rapid upgrade cycles are warranted. As a comparison, and I am not a programmer, I do not see the same required for Python.
     
     All I was saying I am going to avoid anything using PhP in the future, until they sync their upgrade cycles with Debian.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:16:56 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     Yes, thank you for explaining.
     
     For me, a clue-less end-user the latest PhP upgrade cycle is done breaking my Joomla 3.x. installations. I understand the argument that PhP 7.x and Joomla 3.x must go, I just do not accept it.
     
     Whereas Web2Py just keeps ticking, no major interruption since Debian 10 when I first installed it.
     
     I installed and used Devuan since the first release.. Webmin has nice support for it as well. I did not know that PhP is better tracked on Devuan than on Debian.
     
     That leaves Joomla, anything you care to share about Joomla, please?
     寮 likes this.
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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:19:37 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet Nah, Devuan is just as poorly maintained as Debian when it comes to PHP versions.
     
     As for my thoughts on Joomla, I'm surprised someone's still using it in the first place.
     Last time I've seen someone using Joomla was like what? 2011?
     
     Not sure what exactly you use it for, but depending on your usecase it might be better to just use something else, preferrably anything that doesn't involve unnecessarily bloated codebases to the point it becomes unfixable.
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     寮 (ryo@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:42:54 JST 寮

     in reply to

     • FourOh-LLC
     @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet So now we got to the point that we have a framework (Fabrik) inside of a framework (Joomla) inside of a framework (Symphony) inside of a framework (PHP)... :pepeclown:
     No wonder PHP seems like a pain to you then, now I understand it.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:42:55 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     I use it for Fabrik, https://fabrikar.com/ for years. At one point I was about to switch to Web2Py, and from the looks of it I have no choice: Fabrikar is not able to come out with support for Joomla 4.
     
     There is another framework I was contemplating to use, instead of Fabrikar: https://saltcorn.com/ - but again, PhP, what a pain PhP has become for me.
   • Embed this notice
     Terminal Autism (terminalautism@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:48:28 JST Terminal Autism

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • FourOh-LLC
     @ryo @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet
     寮 likes this.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:48:45 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     The way you put it makes it sound really messed up, I never looked it that way. Web2Py looks a lot less risky, its just a straight-forward Rails-like framework.
     
     I might need to byte the bullet, and switch.
     寮 likes this.
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     Terminal Autism (terminalautism@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:52:16 JST Terminal Autism

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • FourOh-LLC
     @ryo @FourOh-LLC @atomicpoet I have never even seen a framework in my entire life. The closest that I got to web development is HTML, and even in that, I prefer keeping everything compatible with the first versions of HTML. Building a page entirely out of tables because a lot of browsers do not have divs. It's a pain, but I can't disappoint all the Links and w3m users out there.
     寮 likes this.
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     FourOh-LLC (fouroh-llc@pkteerium.xyz)'s status on Monday, 21-Nov-2022 14:58:25 JST FourOh-LLC

     in reply to

     • 寮
     • Terminal Autism
     The "web development with Assemblers" reminded me where in 1993 I bought Visual Basic for DOS, because I found Turbo Assembler too slow to create database forms.
     
     Then I discovered Slackware and the curses library, then X and Tcl-Tk, and scrapped VB-DOS.
     寮 likes this.