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   ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 01:55:02 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

   programmer's definition of "breaking change" for semver purposes: "whatever is breaking my personal use case"

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 01:56:31 JST mcc

     in reply to

     @whitequark *thinks*

     Is there a more apt definition?

     Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 01:58:22 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @mcc you could write down an interface specification before you write the program, and then check adherence to this interface specification

     most programmers don't bother doing that! but even those who do, don't get very far, because without machine-checkable interface specifications it's trivially easy to ship a semver-breaking change without noticing. this isn't a great thing!

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 01:59:32 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @mcc also without strong encapsulation, good luck enforcing that your clients actually stick to the interface specification you wrote

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:06:51 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Simon Sapin

     @simon @mcc cargo-semver is the closest i've seen anybody come to making semver a technically useful concept rather than just a ritualistic one, but i haven't used it and it also seems _very_ incomplete (no detection of breaking type changes? that is ... usefulness-limited)

   • Embed this notice
     Simon Sapin (simon@tutut.delire.party)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:06:53 JST Simon Sapin

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc do you have thoughts on https://github.com/obi1kenobi/cargo-semver-checks/ ? it tries to do the machine-checking part

   • Embed this notice
     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:08:14 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc preach

   • Embed this notice
     James Widman (jameswidman@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:10:21 JST James Widman

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc this is reminding me that i should probably learn the ATS language someday

   • Embed this notice
     tef (tef@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:11:12 JST tef

     in reply to

     @whitequark see also hyrum's law

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:11:30 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Glyph

     @glyph @mcc brb, becoming a type of weirdo who puts the entire python module into a big function body and finishes each file with

     __dict__.update(f()); del f

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:11:36 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • tef

     @tef yeah

   • Embed this notice
     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:24:51 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc beat you to it https://pypi.org/project/publication/

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:26:49 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc I mean if they don't, I consider it someone else's problem. 🤷 🙃

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:36:10 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Glyph

     @glyph @mcc oh this is excellent

     i'm probably going to use it for amaranth

   • Embed this notice
     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:38:23 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @whitequark @mcc perhaps you can motivate me to do the stubgen integration and whatnot (remember to like & subscribe)

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:38:25 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @mcc this works right up until it doesn't

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 02:40:11 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Glyph

     @glyph @mcc https://github.com/amaranth-lang/amaranth/issues/1614

     amaranth doesn't ship type stubs (and mostly doesn't use types) though, so it's probably fine as-is

     does it break sphinx?

   • Embed this notice
     dram🎀 (dramforever@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 05:19:28 JST dram🎀

     in reply to

     @whitequark i hate it when people complain about a patch release breaking things that aren't even following semver and aren't even libraries

   • Embed this notice
     Timothée Mazzucotelli :python: (pawamoy@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 08:44:17 JST Timothée Mazzucotelli :python:

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Glyph
     • David Zaslavsky

     @diazona @glyph @whitequark @mcc oh I wanted to share this one too: modul, from Frost Ming, PDM author :)

     https://pypi.org/project/modul/

   • Embed this notice
     David Zaslavsky (diazona@techhub.social)'s status on Saturday, 12-Jul-2025 08:44:18 JST David Zaslavsky

     in reply to

     • mcc
     • Glyph

     @glyph @whitequark @mcc There really is a #Python package for everything lol

     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     dram🎀 (dramforever@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 21-Jul-2025 10:41:22 JST dram🎀

     in reply to

     @whitequark "personal use case" is wild. i just saw an ancient reddit post complaining about linux breaking userspace because they removed shift+page{up,down} to scroll fbcon. my dear reddit rantor you cannot have picked a worse example of userspace...