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1. Embed this notice
   akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 23-May-2025 23:11:11 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
   i think radical GNU people are pretty cool actually
   
   I'm just not a fan of how the -libre distros don't have proprietary software in the repos. I want my distro to manage all the software I install, and freedom includes the ability to, at your option, give up parts of your freedom ... I really like what gentoo does here with the LICENSE variable and package.license directory.
   • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:, prettygood and Johnny Peligro like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 23-May-2025 23:11:48 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @lizzy the thing is that the freedom thing is kind of contradictory.
     
     in any case, to me those people are dorks and its nice to see the tl coming together to shit on them
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 23-May-2025 23:21:37 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @lizzy >I'm just not a fan of how the -libre distros don't have proprietary software in the repos.
     ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
     
     That's like asking for a something to be free of cancer, but have cancer - a total contradiction.
     
     If they had proprietary software in the repo's, then they wouldn't be libre.
     
     >I want my distro to manage all the software I install
     Yes, a free package manager will install whatever package you instruct it to and select whatever remote repository you give it.
     
     >freedom includes the ability to, at your option, give up parts of your freedom
     Freedom is an act that increases the amount of freedom in the world.
     
     Installing proprietary software reduces the amount of freedom in the world - it is rather an act of *convenience*, that often comes back to bite you with massive inconveniences.
     
     A perfect free world would be one where it's not even possible to give up parts of your freedom, just like how in a free world you cannot even voluntarily become a slave.
     
     >I really like what gentoo does here with the LICENSE variable and package.license directory.
     I don't like how Gentoo puts the wrong licenses on ebuilds and puts proprietary licenses into the "@FREE" set.
     
     If Gentoo kept the "@FREE" set free and put the slightest bit of effort into putting the right license on things, Gentoo would be easy to use in freedom - but still it wouldn't be a free distro.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 23-May-2025 23:47:13 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @lizzy >it is impossible to release nonfree software, not impossible to install nonfree software.
     If there is no nonfree software to install, it is impossible to install nonfree software.
     
     >in our current world it is normal for most people to become a wage slave and sell their labor for money.
     It's a severely abnormal practice that has been shilled and psyopped as "normal" and the only way for things to work.
     
     Most people are not in fact wage slaves, but it seems that way, as there are many people who can't avoid it.
     
     >we should not obstruct their ability to do this, they need it to properly live their lives due to how our world works.
     The world should be fixed, rather than such broken world encouraged.
     
     >instead, we need to make the lives of the slavers, the bosses, the capitalists into hell.
     Which can only be done by not leading support
     
     >it’s the same with proprietary software: don’t attack the victim and make things even harder for them, attack the perpetrator.
     Yes, you shouldn't attack the victim by attacking them with the perpetrators proprietary software - enforcement of the GPLv2 should be carried out to make the software free, but if that isn't going to be done, or can't be done, every single copy of the proprietary software should be eradicated, rather than proliferated (as every single person not impacted by the perpetrators malware is a win).
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 23-May-2025 23:47:14 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki in a free world it is impossible to release nonfree software, not impossible to install nonfree software.

     in a free world you cannot even voluntarily become a slave

     actually, in our current world it is normal for most people to become a wage slave and sell their labor for money. we should not obstruct their ability to do this, they need it to properly live their lives due to how our world works. instead, we need to make the lives of the slavers, the bosses, the capitalists into hell.

     it’s the same with proprietary software: don’t attack the victim and make things even harder for them, attack the perpetrator.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 00:03:15 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @lizzy I'm on the side of the techbros on this one (who tf cares about the unix philosphy???)
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 00:03:16 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     but yea I'll agree with GNU people any day before agreeing with MIT license GNOME/Linux-systemd techbros who have completely abandoned the ideals of both Software Freedom and the Unix philosophy and to whom Linux is a funny testing ground for corpos and "brands"
   • Embed this notice
     GNU Tar (freetar@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:00:32 JST GNU Tar

     in reply to

     • Daniel Stevens
     @eris @lizzy
     >I personally believe that the -libre distros just aren't meant for the average user.
     The free distributions of the GNU operating system are intended for everyone, as everyone deserves freedom. However, it is true that the average computer user does not value freedom.
     
     >They're meant for people who want to be sure that they will always be running free software and have accepted all the problems associated with it.
     Please list the problems associated with using a free distribution of the GNU operating system.
     
     >Gentoo's approach is probably the best.
     "Gentoo's approach" would undoubtedly be the best overall if its developers valued freedom.
     
     >Most other distros just give you a yes/no switch on adding a non-free repo (if even that) and that's pretty shit.
     Unfortunately, most other distributions include a proprietary version of Linux and do not even have a policy against proprietary software.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Stevens (eris@p.enes.lv)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:00:34 JST Daniel Stevens

     in reply to
     freedom includes the ability to, at your option, give up parts of your freedom
     The argument is that it shouldn't. Exaggeration, but you are, for example, not allowed to give up your human rights IRL, even if you consent to it now. Consider how you're not allowed to incorporate GPL software within proprietary software or vice-versa. (Unless you jump through hoops to define it as aggregation not composition or as system libs or whatever nonsense.)
     
     I personally believe that the -libre distros just aren't meant for the average user. They're meant for people who want to be sure that they will always be running free software and have accepted all the problems associated with it. For people that are aware of the freedom issues but still for whatever reason need or want to run proprietary software, Gentoo's approach is probably the best. Most other distros just give you a yes/no switch on adding a non-free repo (if even that) and that's pretty shit.
     
   • Embed this notice
     GNU Tar (freetar@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:13:38 JST GNU Tar

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @lizzy @Suiseiseki
     >actually, in our current world it is normal for most people to become a wage slave and sell their labor for money.
     Actually, in our current world, slavery is still practiced.
     
     >it’s the same with proprietary software: don’t attack the victim and make things even harder for them, attack the perpetrator.
     Attacking the perpetrator is not just about punishing those who profit, but also about disrupting the system that sustains it. If no one uses proprietary software, the business of the proprietary master collapses. Freeing the victims also means taking away something they have become accustomed to, even if at first it seems like an aggression to them. But in the long run, it is part of freeing them from control. It is not about attacking them, but about not perpetuating their subordination out of fear of making them uncomfortable.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:14:30 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • GNU Tar
     @freetar @lizzy Slavery is in fact bigger than it has ever been before, before you even include lesser proprietary slavery.
   • Embed this notice
     GNU Tar (freetar@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:23:37 JST GNU Tar

     in reply to

     • Daniel Stevens
     @eris @lizzy
     I asked for a list of problems because I want to examine them. If you know problems associated with using a free distribution of the GNU operating system, I’d genuinely like to read them.
     
     I don't have a dogma — I love freedom.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Stevens (eris@p.enes.lv)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:23:38 JST Daniel Stevens

     in reply to

     • GNU Tar
     Does Suiseiseki reproduce by mitosis or something
     Please list the problems associated with using a free distribution of the GNU operating system.
     Why'd I bother, none of them apply to you as you've accepted them as non-problems in your dogma.
     
     CC: @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev
     
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:37:23 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     I really hate this redefinition of the word slave. A "wage slave" can get get another job. They can quit in America, Europe and most of the developed world. You might not be able to afford food or shelter and have to beg for it, but all humans have historically had to work to eat. (hunting, foraging, defending your cave/hut).

     A slave is owned by another human and cannot leave to do any other work without threat of torture or death. Capitalism is literally about choice of who you give your labor too; the opposite of feudalism and slavery.

     With software, you can choose between free and proprietary, and all but the most hardcore do make those choices. I do like using modern cameras, and playing games .. and Divinci Resolve is still way better than kdenlive at video editing. Everything is about tradeoffs.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 01:50:47 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @lizzy Straight ffmpeg is way better at editing videos than "Divinci Resolve", as it at least respects your freedom.
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 03:49:20 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     I think that undermines just how bad slavery was. You do not have a master in capitalism. I've had jobs that were not great, but I continued doing the minimum until I got hired somewhere else. You can chose who to work for.

     Some people don't understand that, but that doesn't make them slaves with masters. That just means they aren't fully aware of their situation. They think inside a box imposed by their own mind.

     Why does it matter if you have democratic control over who governs you. A company is not a government. It should not be a government.

     It's fucking hard to run a company. It's not easy to be a business owner. I've been on the ground floor of failed startups. I've seen friend's restaurants fail.

     You are free to get a loan, set out a business plan, get some grants, and start a business. Not anyone can do it because it is a lot of work and research to get things off the ground. Most people who do fail.

     I am fine working for someone else if they respect me and pay me a reasonable amount. I've had companies ask for 70~80 hours a week. I've said no and they've fired me. I'm not a slave. I was given a choice, they were given a choice, and in the end we were both free to do what we wanted with our money and human resources.

     If people are free to exchange, you have freedom. You might think you are some slave to some vague system, but that's just victimization bullshit. Such people have never known the harsh reality of being literal slaves in a real prison.

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Saturday, 24-May-2025 03:49:21 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @Suiseiseki under capitalism you can chose your master, but you're still subjugated to them and have no way to exercise democratic control over the fate of your company or who governs it. you're still subject to having a large amount of the profit you generate stolen by a corporation.
     
     being self employed or part of a worker's collective is only possible for very few people when the vast amount of resources, factories, and land are owned by corporations. ergo the reality we live in is a reality where almost all people have to spend the majority of their waking hours under the command of someone they did not elect democratically. while it's better than feudalism, it is not a free society.