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  1. Embed this notice
    :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:50 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
    why does usb even exist you can do anything over ethernet and it's better at it
    In conversation about 4 days ago from netzsphaere.xyz permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:43 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox usb < 3 is easier to implement than ethernet
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:45 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @Paradox ethernet is easier to implement correctly, the plug being bigger is actually good (more durable) and it allows for much greater transfer rates.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
      djsumdog likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Paradox (paradox@raru.re)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:46 JST Paradox Paradox
      in reply to

      @lucy
      Oh, yeah. I have a mouse with a USB plugin but it uses Bluetooth.
      Well USB is thinner than ethernet. I've never had a problem with USB, anyway.

      But that is an interesting idea.

      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:47 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @Paradox wdym? usb isn't wireless either..
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Paradox (paradox@raru.re)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:12:48 JST Paradox Paradox
      in reply to

      @lucy Don't you need a cable for that?

      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:13:41 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      • Zergling_man
      @Zergling_man @Paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: upload.wikimedia.org
        Power over Ethernet
        Power over Ethernet (PoE) describes any of several standards or ad hoc systems that pass electric power along with data on twisted-pair Ethernet cabling. This allows a single cable to provide both a data connection and enough electricity to power networked devices such as wireless access points (WAPs), IP cameras and VoIP phones. Techniques There are several common techniques for transmitting power over Ethernet cabling, defined within the broader Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) 802.3 standard since 2003. The three techniques are: Alternative A, which uses the same two of the four signal pairs that 10BASE-T and 100BASE-TX use for data in typical Cat 5 cabling. Alternative B, which separates the data and the power conductors for 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX, making troubleshooting easier. 4PPoE, which uses all four twisted pairs in parallel, increasing the achievable power. Alternative A transmits power on the same wires as data for common 10 and 100 Mbit/s Ethernet variants. This is similar...
      snacks likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Zergling_man (zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:13:42 JST Zergling_man Zergling_man
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox I gotta play with this
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:13:43 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      • Zergling_man
      @Zergling_man @Paradox yes
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Zergling_man (zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:13:45 JST Zergling_man Zergling_man
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox Does it allow for charging?
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:25:50 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @sally @lucy @Paradox Twisted pair is in fact quite hard to crimp if you don't have the kind of connectors that lets the wires protrude out the end and easily be trimmed, or if the connector doesn't mate well with your crimp tool.

      Hand crimping is only good up to 1000BASE-T - a hand crimped cable will not work with 10GBASE-T unless you get it absolutely perfect.


      USB 2.0 cables can be repaired via soldering (although is often hard due to how thin the wires most usb cables use are), but good luck soldering back together a usb 3.0 or higher cable and having something that does more than 2.0.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sally@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:25:51 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox

      Twisted pair ethernet cable is also so easy to crimp that a kid could do it by hand, while USB requires soldering, and good luck figuring out the wiring this no-name chinese brand decided to put together. This not only means USB sucks more at repairability, it generates more e-waste because most people won't even bother fixing a busted USB cable/port, unless it's expensive equipment.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:28:41 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @sally @lucy @Paradox
      > usb-c
      Did they retroactively add that to usb2 now?
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sally@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:28:42 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @lucy @Paradox

      And yet almost nobody does: https://youtu.be/watch?v=rDPtcKycQeI

      Ethernet requires bigger brain to implement and that's also likely why the cases where it's poorly implemented are much scarcer.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink

      Attachments

      1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        - YouTube
        YouTube でお気に入りの動画や音楽を楽しみ、オリジナルのコンテンツをアップロードして友だちや家族、世界中の人たちと共有しましょう。
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:28:48 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @sally @snacks @Paradox @lucy As far as I can tell, 1000BASE-T is easier to implement protocol-wise - although manufacturing the hardware that generates the voltages Ethernet requires and galvanic isolation is harder and therefore is more expensive.

      Doing PCIe over a cable is much more cursed really.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:29:58 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @snacks @sally @lucy @Paradox Most USB-C connectors seem to only implement USB 2.0 - many of them can only be powered via a USB-A to USB-C cable, as they don't do the handshake required to receive power over USB-C.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:31:47 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @Suiseiseki @sally @lucy @Paradox that's usb pd, anything over 450ma is out of spec for 2.0 iirc
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:33:40 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @Suiseiseki @Paradox @lucy @sally nvm,all the charging shot got retroactively added to usb 2. the usb consortium is run by demons
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:50:25 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox and?
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:50:27 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @Paradox usb < 3 is slower than ethernet tho usually?
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:51:07 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox usb c is faster than ethernet so we should use that afterall?
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      meeper (meeper@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:56:17 JST meeper meeper
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @lucy @snacks @Paradox retvrn to rs232
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
      snacks likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      :blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:56:18 JST :blobcatflower: :blobcatflower:
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @Paradox no, usb-c is junky as hell not very durable. ehternet ports are eternal
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
      snacks likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 12-May-2025 23:56:58 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • Paradox
      @lucy @Paradox but muh thin smartphones!!!!
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 13-May-2025 00:07:05 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
      @snacks @sally @lucy @Paradox Anything over a handful of mA is out of spec for USB-C without a handshake.

      USB 2.0 only requires that a typical port supplies 0.5A@5V±0.5 - ports can supply more.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 13-May-2025 00:12:15 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @lucy @Paradox USB-C is just a port, which you can do just USB 2.0 over, which is much slower than 1000BASE-T and is half-duplex too.

      If USB 3.0 is used, accounting for flow control, packet framing and protocol overhead, <450 MB/s of bandwidth is expected, which is somewhat better than the ~125MiB/s 1000BASE-T does, but in reality dodgy cables and the like can reduce speeds to a ¼ of that - so in practice you can only expect speeds similar to 1000BASE-T (USB 3.0 also can interfere with wireless connections like usb devices and Wi-Fi due to the ridiculously frequencies used - while 1000BASE-T at it's quite low frequency does not).
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 13-May-2025 00:26:53 JST snacks snacks
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • Paradox
      @Suiseiseki @lucy @Paradox everything with a usb-c port has to at least support 3.1 to be in spec afaik
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 13-May-2025 00:37:19 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @lucy @Paradox I don't believe that is the case.

      I believe they just need to implement the handshake to be in spec (which can be done with only logic games), but many devices don't.
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 13-May-2025 00:39:21 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • snacks
      • Paradox
      @snacks @Paradox @lucy *a handshake (there are multiple handshakes, with one logic gates one, with the rest being software ones).
      In conversation about 4 days ago permalink

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