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1. Embed this notice
   small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:09:45 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

   https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1kcklcf/comment/mq3fruk/
   
   interesting explainer on why (basically) nobody is porting games to linux
   
   it boils down to the system ABI ("glibc") is not stable, and isolated containers are impossible to monetize.
   
   steam has the v3 version of the same titled runtime which solves this but engines need to start supporting it first
   
   plus if you hate containers (like podman, docker) you're shit out of luck.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:09:44 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @ada > plus if you hate containers (like podman, docker) you're shit out of luck.
     
     not my problem
     t. runs a container to run intel's fork of ollama on my laptop
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:10:38 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @lizzy @ada a lot of linux people lol @ windows users saying "you can run old windows software on wine just fine" til they get asked to run something from ubuntu 6.04
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:10:39 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     @ada the irony is that linux itself actually cares a ton about not breaking compatibility but then all the userspace stuff messes it up
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:10:40 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     also running this runtime outside of steam as an end user is not trivial

   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:10:47 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love last time i checked i didn't mention you directly for that point

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:10:47 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @ada it's ok, i still stated it and you listened.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:30:55 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @adiz yep! I made my own dockerfile (haven't published it to github) for the thing.
   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:30:56 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato You have it all containerized? I just installed everything locally to my home directory. I'm using text-generation-webui.

   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:49 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     I still have some old CDs with Loki Entertainment, a company from the early 2000s who ported games to Linux: Simcity 3000, Heavy Gear II, etc.
     
     None of them will work today. They're for an ancient version of GLibc. Meanwhile there are still a decent amount of WinXP games that will still run on Win 10/11 (maybe not well; maybe in an offset window and not fullscreen .. but they'll start and make an effort).
     
     I think a stable ABI isn't really possible with just the way most Linux libraries work with all the optional includes and flags. It's the nature of every distro compiling their own versions of everything. You also see compatibility being an issue on macOS. There are a lot of games from 10.7 or 10.8, that have never been updated and will not run on any modern OS version. Apply is terrible about backwards compatibility with OS X, which is why it's never taken off as an OS for games.
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:50 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     @ada it's an issue of culture and not an issue of impossibility, really. a foss community can definitely do TDD, they just, don't, for some reason. maybe because the people contributing to it are too far removed from the average user, if something breaks for them they can just fix it, and without monetary incentives/feedback that forces you to operate in a more user focused way, processes are optimized for developer experience instead
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:51 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev TDD and open source are nearly antonyms at this point, only enterprise (and enterprise OSS) end up having those.
     
     which wine falls into that latter category

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:52 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     @ada this software has existed for, like, 30 years now? how have they not figured out software engineering yet.
     
     pretty much every regression/bug that gets fixed on wine gets a test, and i would say that when submitting fixes upstream, 80-90% of the work is testing
     
     tho, there's several downstreams (wine staging, proton, crossover) that are more hacky, but those hacks then gradually get turned into properly written and tested patches that flow back upstream and everyone is happy.
     
     i wonder if this model could help other linux software as well
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:53 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev mesa has too many cooks, also generally bad testing culture so abi breakages are going to happen
     
     i think recently mesa-git was broken for my configuration because they decided to make some components of mesa static which wasn't updated for a few subsystems

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:54 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     @ada ? fsf maybe, but freedesktop (on the mesa side)?
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:55 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev not going to happen with the current project leadership and you know that

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:56 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to
     @ada frankly what needs to happen is for ABIs to get their shit together and become more stable
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:36:57 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     so one thing has to start happening, and one thing this one would like to happen:
     
     engines need to support the steam runtime as a build target first
     
     and, the steam runtime should make their own appimage format so distribution outside of steam is less acidic.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:38:38 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @adiz yeah I don't like stuff being unclean. There's also the thing with nixOS not supporting intel hw for ollama, there's a guy that has a personal setup for it but using it is not yet possible, did give him a heads up though. When that is done, I can drop the container and use native nix support for that.
   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:38:39 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato Well, that's pretty nifty! That actually sounds like a clever idea both for reproducibility and also keeping things sand-boxed. I'm just straight-up rawdogging stuff right now. I don't think I'd make my own Docker file. I wonder if there are pre-built AI/LLM containers out there like that, though.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:43:33 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @adiz nigga you can just install toolbx https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/podman-toolbox/toolbox.1.en.html
   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:43:34 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato I can totally understand and relate to that. I kinda wish that Debian had tools like Fedora's Toolbox. That was/is my favorite feature of Fedora.

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:46:09 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @ada there is a difference between running games from 25 years ago and running games from 3 years ago tho. some bumps are probably fine, but the problem is if things break in every new version of some core libraries.
     
     really i think the solution to stability is to statically compile most stuff into your binary and/or ship it with the game, but obviously this doesn't apply to stuff like glibc or mesa.
     
     at least those central system components should have some sort of stability, the linux kernel is highly configurable yet stable, why not the userspace libs. it's literally a question of mentality.
     djsumdog likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:46:33 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @adiz ye s
     this is why u research niggaragaga
   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 09:46:34 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato FUCK❗ I could have been containerizing all of this shit the entire time from the very start in toolboxes⁉️

   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:25 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     Don't most anti-cheats just look for known processes and have enumerated lists like virus scanners do? I was at some talk where someone attached a debugger to a game and named the debugger "Google Chrome" and showed people how to implement Minecraft cheats.
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:26 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     @ada @djsumdog @PurpCat yea those client side anticheats have always been kinda ridiculous to me like wtf, coming from an open source multiplayer gamedev background (and specifically having done a *lot* of development of cheats & subsequently also contributing to anticheat) that's like, the opposite of what you're supposed to do
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:27 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @PurpCat@clubcyberia.co @djsumdog@djsumdog.com @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev it does also seem to be specifically western developers. eastern/slavic seems to be going in the opposite direction (server based detection rather than kernel), probably a sign of the future since cheating is significantly more rampant there.

   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:28 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @ada @djsumdog @lizzy Not just Fortnite, but also Vanguard, CoD, Apex/EA, etc.
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:29 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev @PurpCat@clubcyberia.co @djsumdog@djsumdog.com (on an aside; to be fair on the screaming goose, eac linux enablement seems to be enabled by default now since i can't find a reason why every recent game has it enabled despite not even being aware it's a toggle. it's specifically fortnite that the screaming goose screams over)

   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:30 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @lizzy @djsumdog @ada I mean, there's a difference between trying to run some Windows 9x app from Japan that was literally undumped for years, and some game that worked until they added in kernel level anti-cheat.
     
     The latter is what causes drama as of late.
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:30 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @djsumdog @ada game companies being assholes intentionally is not something you can really do anything about but "win32 is the most stable abi on linux" implies that the best bet for building an application that works reliably on linux is to build a windows application and run it on wine, which is just plain wrong
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:31 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @djsumdog @ada in many cases it's a problem with unimplemented or misbehaving shit in wine (source: i am literally a paid wine developer)
   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:32 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @lizzy @djsumdog @ada
     >things just won't work in the first place 20% of the time
     
     Cue the screaming goose meme on who is to blame for that
   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:33 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @djsumdog @lizzy @ada remember the most stable abi on linux is Win32
      likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:00:33 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     @PurpCat @djsumdog @ada yea, on wine things just won't work in the first place 20% of the time, great, what an improvement. but at least it's "stable" or whatever
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:01:30 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     It's kinda sad we're at the end of the physical media era. There might not be anything after GlueRay
   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:01:31 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @ada @djsumdog @lizzy it's comically bloated btw, you can't just install BO6 you need to install Warzone too and the shitty hub launcher.
     https://www.eurogamer.net/activision-warns-a-standard-500gb-ps4-may-no-longer-fit-call-of-duty-warzone-black-ops-cold-war-and-modern-warfare
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:01:32 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @PurpCat@clubcyberia.co @djsumdog@djsumdog.com @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev a dollar per gigabite, impressive.

   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:01:33 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @ada @djsumdog @lizzy western developers literally only care about money, they can't even patch RCEs in their games.
     
     as long as some schmuck is willing to spend $80 or $100 on Call of Duty reskin 420 with the same problems as last years...
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:06:19 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     ... (I've only played about 20 minutes of minecraft :blobfoxinnocent:)

   • Embed this notice
     akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt) (lizzy@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:06:20 JST akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     @ada @djsumdog @PurpCat in minecraft you can actually do a lot of cheating that is impossible or very hard to detect because it operates within the game's rules but automates stuff. like freecam, fullbright, baritone, schematicas, and a lot of quality of life stuff like. auto-refilling items in your hotbar, auto totem and armor, auto selecting the right tools and weapons, killaura. auto looting chests, automatic inventory management, waypoints, death points, minimap, etc etc.
     
     the line between cheating and quality of life is incredibly blurred
   • Embed this notice
     small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada (ada@zoner.work)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:06:21 JST small, versatile 6DoF c++ witch *ada

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @lizzy@social.vlhl.dev @djsumdog@djsumdog.com @PurpCat@clubcyberia.co Flying is not enabled on this server.

   • Embed this notice
     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:07:05 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato Bro this whole time I thought it was a Fedora-specific thing. This makes my love of Debian so much stronger, you don't even know.

     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:49:53 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     I still buy everything on physical discs. The PS5 is staying disconnected from the Internet forever. I'm hoping for the day I'll be able to crack it like I've cracked the PS4. I've debated buying a PS5Pro and just keeping it in its box in hopes for a low firmware crack.
   • Embed this notice
     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:49:54 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • xianc78
     • djsumdog
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)
     @xianc78 @djsumdog @lizzy @ada they can't make money selling it, even blu rays aren't selling too well except for niche stuff
   • Embed this notice
     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Friday, 02-May-2025 10:49:55 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Pawlicker
     • akkoma flavored lizzy (fleckenstein@lizzy.rs alt)

     @djsumdog @PurpCat @lizzy @ada Wasn't someone trying to create an optical disc format that stores even more than BluRay?