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1. Embed this notice
   pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:11:09 JST pistolero
   
   fucktingretards.gif
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     :umu: :umu: (a1ba@suya.place)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:16:43 JST :umu: :umu:

     in reply to
     @p nginx reload? As in configs?
     
     Can't you just send it's main process a signal?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:18:18 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     @a1ba You can, but look at the filename: "suid-reload.c". They did that so they could install it SUID.
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     :umu: :umu: (a1ba@suya.place)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:23:42 JST :umu: :umu:

     in reply to
     @p why they need suid on nginx?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:23:56 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     @a1ba So that they could do shit like use curl to trigger reloads:
     
     https://10.0.0.19/$board/imgboard.php?mode=rebuildall
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:27:06 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @a1ba I mean, it's shit like this that is why they're not coming back up any time soon. All their tooling is built around "nobody will guess the secret URL" and "enable dev mode if the request comes from this specific IP address" and shit like that.
     
     (cc @pwm , I'm going through the tarball you sent.)
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     :umu: :umu: (a1ba@suya.place)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:27:50 JST :umu: :umu:

     in reply to
     @p that's stupid imho
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     :umu: :umu: (a1ba@suya.place)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:58:57 JST :umu: :umu:

     in reply to

     • pwm
     @p @pwm at this point I'm surprised why admins aren't complete feds. Or are they?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 23:59:32 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @a1ba @pwm Maybe they didn't have to compromise the admins because of all the goddamn holes in the site.
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     pwm (pwm@darkdork.dev)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:01:30 JST pwm

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     @toiletpaper @p @a1ba there is a second tarball ina second post. I have it uploaded somewhere, Pete probably does too
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     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:01:31 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @p @pwm @a1ba
     
     Interesting. What tarball is that? I grabbed the one off kiwifarms, but it doesn't contain any C code at all, just >92K lines of PHP and JS, along with assorted CSS etc.
     
     https://kiwifarms.st/attachments/a8z45n-7z.7221536/
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     pwm (pwm@darkdork.dev)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:04:45 JST pwm

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • pwm
     @toiletpaper @a1ba @p
     https://darkdork.dev/notice/AtCKziY54pejnN8Xk8
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     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:07:04 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @pwm @p @a1ba
     
     Thanks!
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:14:17 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • pwm
     @toiletpaper @a1ba @pwm
     
     > What tarball is that?
     
     Attached.
     
     > I grabbed the one off kiwifarms,
     
     There are apparently multiple tarballs, since this one came from KF also. The other thread (the one on fedi) has a lot of different tarballs, pwm put this one there.
     
     Still no sign of the git repos, which would be really interesting. I can see why they might not drop the entire DB dump, but I can't see why they would do stuff like drop the output of 'git log' but not the actual .git directory.
     pwm-extras-2024-04-17.tgz
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:16:06 JST Phantasm

     in reply to
     @p At least here you can't break it by changing $PATH I think. Netdata did similar shit few months back where they shipped a new suid that would execute arbitrary command by modifying $PATH-
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:18:00 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • pwm
     @p @pwm @toiletpaper @a1ba
     >but I can't see why they would do stuff like drop the output of 'git log' but not the actual .git directory.
     Just street cred for zoomies I think. Most of it wouldn't be posted in the first place if people didn't beg for it in the sharty thread.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:20:26 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt
     
     > At least here you can't break it by changing $PATH I think.
     
     Well, they pass argv through, but it's not really the thing (although they are passing argv through), it's that suid is *always* a suspicious thing, and also there are not many (any?) reasons to do it like this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:25:55 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • pwm
     @toiletpaper @a1ba @pwm
     
     > I'm never gonna run that anywhere.
     
     I don't expect anyone to run it; I'm not going to run it. But it's interesting how the pieces fit together like walking around an old house, and in places it's kind of embarrassing, like it's amazing that they didn't get owned sooner.
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     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:25:56 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @p @pwm @a1ba
     
     Honestly, I'm never gonna run that anywhere. Just curious to be able to point and laugh. 😜
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:26:59 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • Phantasm
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • pwm
     @phnt @a1ba @pwm @toiletpaper Lotta stuff that people have begged for in that thread that didn't show up.
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:27:05 JST Phantasm

     in reply to
     @p
     >and also there are not many (any?) reasons to do it like this.
     If it was a full nginx restart, I could find exactly one reason for it. nginx sometimes just stops working properly and that would allow mods/jannies to restart it without having shell access to the box. For reload, I don't see any reasons.
     
     >it's that suid is *always* a suspicious thing
     Yet very few people care to check what they do when new suid binaries show up in projects. Most packagers don't bother to check.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:38:07 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt
     
     > I could find exactly one reason for it.
     
     Actually, it was just lazy admin shit: it was connected to a URL, but the fastcgi user didn't have permission to talk to the nginx socket, and their solution was to make a SUID binary that the PHP script could call. This was probably exposed somewhere through some UI thing but they also used it for stuff like triggering a rebuild:
     sync-git.sh
     imgboard.php
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     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 00:38:36 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @p @pwm @a1ba
     
     I find it interesting that looking at earlier iterations of leaked 4chan code it's basically a single PHP file around 1K lines. Crazy how it's ballooned into that absolute behemoth.
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     :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 02:05:08 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     @p hey the majority of letsencrypt certs are done with certbot running as root, because how would you reload servers without root.

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 05:18:01 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare
     @sicp ANSI decls are one thing but indenting the entire program, that's kinda weird. It's almost like they generated this program, but a code generator wouldn't have a reason to skip the #includes.
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     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 05:18:03 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to
     @p weird flex with the K&R syntax
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 05:24:25 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius @p
     
     >certbot
     Still amazes that such a piece of junk is the most used acme client. Their fetish with systemd timers made them create hooks that didn't need to exist and barely had any documentation on how they worked.
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     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 06:22:52 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare

     @sicp @p (Eric) Allman style, right?

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentation_style#Allman_style

     (Any of us buy a Scroll of Sendmail back in the day: https://www.amazon.com/sendmail-4th-Bryan-Costales/dp/0596510292 ?? My goodness, it got up to a fourth edition printed in 2007, increased to 1308 pages and 3.84 pounds!)

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 06:24:44 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @sicp I basically use `indent -kr -i8 -l80`, though with a bunch of other shit turned off if I'm using the actual program rather than eyeballing it. I think K&R is easier to read.
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     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 06:38:18 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare

     @p @sicp I recognized the Allman style since I find the balanced braces to be much more legible and clear. Although I didn't change to that until my terminals had a lot more than 24 lines.

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 06:47:10 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @sicp I used to like that style; I think there's reading code and scanning it, people have different styles of digesting what's on the screen. I suspect that reading it makes K&R more comfortable.
     
     if(condition) {
     consequence
     } else {
     other
     }
     
     Each of those lines has exactly one relevant thing on it, except the last one, the code equivalent of a paragraph break. It's more like this style:
     
     (cond ((condition consequence)
     (t other)))
     
     Allman style is a little more scanning-friendly than reading-friendly, I think. You read a line and then you have to look around to find the next relevant thing.
     
     I could be completely off about this. But, you know, you look at something like Arthur Whitney's code, you get a pathological example. You look at Chuck Moore and Ken Thompson and you see something a little more, like, it's legible but there's been not much effort put into how it looks on the page: what are they optimizing for, what makes that style of code look better to them?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 09:36:39 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @sicp @ThatWouldBeTelling
     
     > I figure makes the most sense if you consider writing stuff line-by-line on a teletype with ed; it keeps the lines short.
     
     This is a myth, it's a facile explanation at least as old as the UHH. "The only reason to name it `cp` instead of `copy-file-from-one-location-to-the-other` is because of the balky teletype!" Even if it weren't a myth in the case of Unix, it fails to explain APL, J, K, Forth. Even Paul Graham noted that terseness is useful. "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie, the book that the "K&R" style is named after, was a book, it was intended to be read, not executed. I/O redirection on Multics, at the time Bell Labs was still involved, looked like this:
     
     iocall attach user_output file filename
     list
     iocall attach user_output syn user_i/o
     
     ...Where Unix just uses `ls>filename`. Which one's easier to read? Once you know what ">" means, obviously "iocall attach user_output file" is *harder* to read. You catch the difference between "file" and "syn"? Those lines are identical for the first 26 characters: sifting out signal from noise has a nonzero cost.
     
     TUHS has the v6 source, the v7 source, the v10 even. Glass tty by the time v7 rolled around. The Plan 9 source is all over the place: bitmap displays with mice and everything. A lot of the code reads like Dick Gabriel (WIB author) described: "I'm always delighted by the light touch and stillness of early programming languages. Not much text; a lot gets done. Old programs read like quiet conversations between a well-spoken research worker and a well-studied mechanical colleague, not as a debate with a compiler. Who'd have guessed sophistication bought such noise?"
     
     Here's something: the length of a string of digits that a person can keep in their short-term memory is proportional to the length of time it takes them to pronounce those digits. People whose native languages use less time to pronounce the numbers can remember longer strings of numbers; genetics not involved, just the language you grew up speaking.
     
     Code is language; it's an artificial language, but it's a language. Think about mathematics: word problems in school textbooks, Roman numerals, prose descriptions of equations versus equations written in the standard-ish algebraic notation we use nowadays. The conventional wisdom, that "more characters" means "easier to read" is completely fucked. Pike's example in "Notes on Programming in C" ( http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle ) was "MAX" versus "MAXIMUM". Using more words than you need to doesn't make your writing any clearer. Prose and math and phone numbers and people think that it's somehow the *opposite* for code.
     
     And so the shell, or any of the code, you think more than you type. You describe these programs to people: you type them or you say them. You think in your head, "I had a clever solution to this, what did I type yesterday?"
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     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 09:36:40 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @p @ThatWouldBeTelling
     K&R style (along with the old C syntax) I figure makes the most sense if you consider writing stuff line-by-line on a teletype with ed; it keeps the lines short.
     
     >You look at Chuck Moore and Ken Thompson and you see something a little more, like, it's legible but there's been not much effort put into how it looks on the page: what are they optimizing for, what makes that style of code look better to them?
     When I look at Bell Labs code I usually get the idea that whoever was writing it cared more about just getting the program out than getting it to look nice. I hearken back to when I had to write Java for CS classes and I didn't care how sloppy it looked 'cause it compiled fine and I wanted to move on with my life.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 09:53:28 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @sicp
     
     > the same way they found the CR-LF?CR-LF an entirely acceptable single error message in ed.
     
     Well, you know, look at how Lorinda Cherry did dc. And people keep being baffled that dc is still popular. I use dc all the damn time. I love dc.
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     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 09:53:29 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare

     @sicp @p "K&R style (along with the old C syntax) I figure makes the most sense if you consider writing stuff line-by-line on a teletype with ed; it keeps the lines short."

     And there we have it! :cirnoSmile:

     Ed was my first editor (not counting the punch card game), and some of it was on a DECwriter, plus I used a real Teletype for international communications a while later.

     There were extreme penalties in both time to do a mechanical line feed (and carriage return to a degree) and paper use if you'd for example written "} else {" in three lines. K&R and crew just wouldn't have done that, in the same way they found the CR-LF?CR-LF an entirely acceptable single error message in ed.

     Of Bell Labs code I've only read the V6 kernel examples in the Lions' Notes, it was pretty nice although maybe Lions touched it up, or ran it through a pretty printer, I think there was one by the time of V6.

     "When I look at Bell Labs code I usually get the idea that whoever was writing it cared more about just getting the program out than getting it to look nice."

     There was a lot of work needed to make UNIX™ usable for normies writing technical documentation, I can entirely believe a "get it done" attitude without worrying so much about code formatting elegance in the process.

     Especially outside of the kernel where you had it to catch so many mistakes semi-elegantly.

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     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:23:32 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare

     @p @sicp Some of dc's popularity has to be related to the HP calculator phenomena starting in 1968 for the customer. RPN is just plain popular for calculating for a lot of people, I too use dc by default, but first started with HP handheld calculators.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 10:23:36 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @sicp Yeah; the first review Consumer Reports ever retracted. (The reviewer couldn't make sense of postfix operations.) Somewhere (all my shit's packed in boxes) I have an HP calculator, gift from a friend because I talked his ear off about Forth.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:18:07 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @sicp @ThatWouldBeTelling Oh, right, the ANSI-style declarations. Well, it is easier to type "c" and retype the line (with the changes) if it's short, but if I'm using ed and I want to do something like that, I'll usually just type "s/int/long/".
     
     This might or might not be of interest but probably is relevant: the Plan 9 code uses the newer declarations, but they put a newline before the function name:
     
     int
     main(int argc, char **argv)
     
     This is actually to make it easy to grep, including with the editor. In ed, sam, vi, whichever, you do `/^main` to jump to the definition. acme even lets you do this by right-clicking, so you see things like "see also foo.c:/^bar" in comments.
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     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:18:08 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @p @ThatWouldBeTelling
     I was more or less referring to how the old C syntax makes more sense when using a line editor like ed. If you write functions like this:
     foo(a, b)
     int a;
     char *b;
     ...
     it's easier to change, since if you wanted to say, change the type of a variable you wouldn't have to rewrite the whole line.
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     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:22:27 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @p @ThatWouldBeTelling
     > they put a newline before the function name
     yeah, I do that too. Not a big fan of having to look all the way down the screen cause the return type is "static struct FuckYourShittyColumnLimitLookOverHere **"
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:29:23 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @sicp @ThatWouldBeTelling I have to make myself do it. I try not to have types that are that long. If a library thrusts that kind of type on me, I don't mind using a macro.
     
     Of course, Arthur Whitney thought that "char" and "long" were too long to type so his single-page prototype for the J language looked like this: https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Incunabulum
     j-incunabulum.png
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     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:29:33 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @p @ThatWouldBeTelling by the way this is completely par for the course for Java functions with their 10 keywords and shit
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:31:09 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @sicp @ThatWouldBeTelling Yep; when I were young, Java was thought of as the future of programming. Luckily, we were spared that fate; as much as I hate JavaScript, it is a somewhat nicer language, as long as you don't poke it too hard.
     i_do_not_care_for_javascript.jpg
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     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:31:28 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • the_daikon_warfare

     @sicp @p But at some point, by the time of V6, ed allowed you to not rewrite a whole line.

     Like ignoring positioning details, to change the type of b, you could do:

     s/char/int/

     Which in this case is more characters to type, but that gives you the idea. The pattern "/char/" can then be used again without typing it all, just "//"

     You could also find a line with /[search pattern]/ and that saves the pattern to then do a substitution, or another search.

     There can be issues of picking the unique set of characters, but at least the anchoring '^" and '$' beginning and ending of the line worked.

     I can't remember when full regular expressions were added to the pattern, ex has them today, but they weren't something I delved into when I was exclusively using ed on V6 and V7, at least for a while in the latter. But I expect these sorts of things to have been added as soon as they were thought of, K&R and company having a very direct interest in editing efficiency.

     As quickly as possible I installed an ersatz Emacs on that V7 system, but ed/ex are still handy to get around terminal issues and for quick changes, especially if you've got it wired into your brain. And no surprises like fucking nano having a default of breaking lines at 80 characters or whatever :cirnoForReals:

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 11:46:48 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     • the_daikon_warfare
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @sicp
     
     > I can't remember when full regular expressions were added to the pattern,
     
     It'd have to be before v6; "grep" was named after the ed command: "g/re/p" ("global /regex/ print" for anyone not familiar with ed), and v6 had grep (in src/s1/grep.c; attached). v6 grep includes its own implementation of regexes. (In fact, that's most of the code. There's a little bit of culture shock, like no fprintf, so there's a function called "printf2" in grep that switches "printf" to use fd 2.)
     
     (I don't have earlier versions; v6 is about as far back as I can make sense of. Possibly surprisingly, a lot of v7 code still compiles--with a lot of warnings--and executes as intended on $current_year Linux, a lot of it still runs if you use the POSIX-compatible "pcc" on Plan 9.)
     
     > ed/ex are still handy to get around terminal issues and for quick changes,
     
     I don't use ex but ed is still pretty nice for some kinds of editing. (acme has interactive windows, so I have a shell going in one of them usually, and I've caught myself using ed inside acme.)
     grep.c
   • Embed this notice
     the_daikon_warfare (sicp@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 12:00:39 JST the_daikon_warfare

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @p @ThatWouldBeTelling I pity poor old JS. He was destined to be a great Scheme until he got dropped on his head.
     pistolero likes this.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 17:18:07 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • :umu: :umu:
     • pwm
     @a1ba @pwm @p Feds have been on the admin team for years.
     
     The feds get their own copy of every single post made and image uploaded.
     pistolero likes this.