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  1. Embed this notice
    Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:06:58 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
    • pistolero
    half tempted to use that crash course song as the theme song to my unix tools podcast thing @p
    In conversation about a month ago from shitposter.world permalink
    • pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:06:57 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      @jeffcliff @p >Unix tools podcast.
      >Not making a GNU tools podcast and then moving onto the GNU software that is not tools.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:12:42 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @jeffcliff @p GNU's Not Unix!
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:12:43 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      @Suiseiseki @p isn't that what gnu world order kinda is ??
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:16:01 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @jeffcliff @p GNU stuff is designed to run on GNU/Linux-libre and GNU/Hurd just as well.

      The only POSIX-certified software I'm aware of is proprietary software.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 02:16:02 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      @Suiseiseki @p true but a lot of posix stuff is cross gnu/*nix and nether are a good portion of #freesoftware tools for troubleshooting on them
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 12:57:12 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      @jeffcliff Ha, nice! It's a catchy song, the UK Subs are a pretty fun band.


      > my unix tools podcast thing

      I didn't know you have one of those. That sounds fun.
      18--c.i.d._single_version.mp3
      In conversation about a month ago permalink

      Attachments


      ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 12:59:56 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > GNU software that is not tools.

      The innovation in Unix was software as tools. Lisp snobs looked down on Unix and :rms: still couldn't ignore pipes. Kernighan and Plaugher's "Software Tools" book is (despite all the Fortran) a pretty good read.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 13:01:18 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      @Suiseiseki @p certified yes but compatible no, stuff like man(1) and pstree(1)
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 13:08:40 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @p @jeffcliff GNU's Not Unix.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:05:43 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff It's not legally Unix but it a big Unix.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:07:27 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @p it's not started yet -- i was going to set up my laptop with a bunch of unix tools and then try to spend an episode on each of them, trying to get in touch with whoever the oldest person i could find who was responsible for them but unfortunately the combination of the ongoing pandemic, some hardware failures and just general wtf has kept me from progressing very far on it. i've got the laptop running again and have *started* retracing my steps but it's kinda a mountain to climb up as good as any rn
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:08:24 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      @jeffcliff

      > the oldest person i could find who was responsible for them

      You should hit up TUHS. :mcilroy: Doug McIlroy still posts there a lot.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:22:11 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @p @jeffcliff It contains no code from Unix and it will not pass the proprietary POSIX test suite, therefore it is not a Unix.

      Some parts of it are Unix-like, but many parts are not.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:42:11 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > it will not pass the proprietary POSIX test suite, therefore it is not a Unix.

      Who says that's what constitutes Unix?
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 14:45:23 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @p @jeffcliff Since the current holder of the Unix™ trademark only awards the Unix title to proprietary OS's that pass their proprietary test suite.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 15:29:46 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > Since the current holder of the Unix™ trademark

      Is passing a test suite created by a corporation that owns a trademark the sole necessary and sufficient criterion by which one decides if something is a Unix or not?

      How many versions of Research Unix pass their test suite, anyway? Does Seventh Edition pass the suite?

      ken helped with BSD's Unix. Is BSD a Unix? When ken created the first Unix, was he creating an operating system or a legal entity or a test suite?

      I've read this brief essay, "The Evolution of the Unix Time-sharing System", it was written by dmr. It seems to treat the matter of trademarking as incidental and says that Unix was created in 1969. It doesn't say anything about a test suite. Is it possible that the authors of Unix created Unix and named it Unix and that the thing they were describing is somehow not Unix? I mean, if that's true, then what was created in 1969? What is the real name of the entity that these papers have been written about? If I want to see something, I do `cd src/unix/v7` or v6 or v10...what kind of thing am I looking at? Should I rename the directory?

      If I create something, is it not real until a room full of lawyers and MBAs decide that it is? I thought I could make things, but it turns out that anything I might make is just bullshit until it is given the stamp of approval by officials with the proper authority and they get to decide what is what! Gosh, that seems to make hacking a completely pointless. But I guess their opinions matter more.

      I'll be right back, I'm deleting all this nonsense that the cool hackers made and installing Windows 11 and VSCode and asking OpenAI to write some JavaScript for me so that I can better serve the corporate overlords. There's an ARM version of Windows now, but I suppose I will have to throw away my RISC-V system. Maybe I can sell all these terrible devices and just replace it with a shiny MacBook :germanB:ro and then click on "Please, sir, may I run the program?" boxes in order to install Chrome! Chrome is official: it's not a website unless Chrome.
      evolution_of_the_unix_time-sharing_system.pdf
      research_unix_reader_1971-1986--mcilroy.pdf
      unix_prog_design.pdf
      In conversation about a month ago permalink

      Attachments




      ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: and Phantasm like this.
    • Embed this notice
      þernia (pernia@cum.salon)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 15:42:44 JST þernia þernia
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      @p @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff punix was created on january 1st 1970, this is why they count unix time from that date
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 15:43:58 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • þernia
      • 翠星石
      @pernia @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > punix

      You need to make a distro.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 15:53:14 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • Jolly Rancher
      @not_br549 @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > Be sure to sign the CoC as you pass through the gift shop on the way out.

      brb assigning a license and drafting a code of conduct for every script in ~/bin
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      Phantasm likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 15:53:15 JST Jolly Rancher Jolly Rancher
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      I thought it was called unix to differentiate it from multics, to which it was similar ..

      > If I create something, is it not real until a room full of lawyers and MBAs decide that it is? I thought I could make things, but it turns out that anything I might make is just bullshit until it is given the stamp of approval by officials with the proper authority and they get to decide what is what! Gosh, that seems to make hacking a completely pointless. But I guess their opinions matter more.

      Be sure to sign the CoC as you pass through the gift shop on the way out.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      Phantasm and pistolero like this.
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 16:31:16 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • pistolero
      @p @jeffcliff Idk, but I know that GNU's Not Unix is not a Unix and will never be one.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 17:37:57 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero

      @p @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff all the old bell labs adjacent books are pretty good reads. only computer books coming close to be as concise and easily read are books by wirth, imo.

      baroque gnu as a system (the classic system, not the modern freedesktop stuff linux is plagued with) is fine for me, the extra functionality is really handy sometimes. plan 9 is good because it opens up new ways of easily doing things. i do have a weak spot for :netbsd:, the other bsds are kind of meh to me.

      maybe i just like the bazaar better?

      (this turned out more rambling than intended xD)

      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      Phantasm and pistolero like this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Apr-2025 17:41:35 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
      @bonifartius @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff

      > all the old bell labs adjacent books are pretty good reads.

      Yeah, especially :bwksmug:. Great writer.

      > baroque gnu as a system (the classic system, not the modern freedesktop stuff linux is plagued with) is fine for me, the extra functionality is really handy sometimes.

      I like that their grep is so speedy. Other than that, I'm reasonably happy replacing the whole damn thing with busybox.

      > i do have a weak spot for :netbsd:

      That was the first BSD that I actually really liked, and it was because of pkgsrc. I think CRUX does a better job with it: it's simpler and faster and more Unix-y.

      > (this turned out more rambling than intended xD)

      It looked short to me!
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 07:20:17 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero

      @p @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff
      gnu never got in my way, i don't mind the extra options some tools have. i use them on occasion, they save my time as i don't have to write some script, i'm lazy, after all!

      a really long time ago i ran a small file server on some rigged together hardware using netbsd to store torrented stuff to watch on my flat mates giant tv. worked perfectly fine until the poor 2.5" drive gave up from the 24/7 use :blobcatghostdead: good times

      i felt rambling in the sense of veering off to philosophy about bazaar and cathedral :D

      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      lainy and pistolero like this.
    • Embed this notice
      Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:29:17 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • pistolero
      @p @Suiseiseki oddly enough had one of those on my mega already. now all 3 are up
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      pistolero likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:33:18 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      @jeffcliff @Suiseiseki I am full of things like this.
      lion-s_commentary_on_unix.pdf
      In conversation about a month ago permalink

      Attachments


    • Embed this notice
      Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 03:34:04 JST Phantasm Phantasm
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • Jolly Rancher
      • pistolero
      @p @Suiseiseki @not_br549 @jeffcliff Sorry for interrupting your drafting process, but I think this CoC might be the one you'll want to use.
      COFE_OF_CONDUCT.md
      In conversation about a month ago permalink

      Attachments


      ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: and pistolero like this.
    • Embed this notice
      pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 04:28:42 JST pistolero pistolero
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      • Jolly Rancher
      • Phantasm
      @phnt @Suiseiseki @jeffcliff @not_br549 That doesn't seem diverse enough, sorry. I'm selling all of my machines to get a MacBook :germanB:ro.
      In conversation about a month ago permalink
      Phantasm likes this.

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